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Podcast 140 Transcript, Otter

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A transcript for Episode 140: "We Usually Come Up With A Title" (2018-05-07.

Pronoiac passed the podcast to Otter for an automated transcription.

It's ... not bad!


Jessamyn: Well, and I don't know I don't know if you've been keeping up on like other internet things, but the learned league right after you joined had a catastrophic failure and I saw something about being down, but I didn't catch up on what happened at all. Well, I just caught up this morning. I didn't even see it was down but basically some kind of catastrophic failure at the host who also didn't have at all no like so basically there's a local back up the chain is using Shane Torsten integrity

Cortex: and there's not a real name,

Jessamyn: but his real name is Shane, but I felt like he's not like a he's not like a weird creep about like never use my name is real human being and you know like your Josh Milan that you know you know I just think Thorson integrity is the funniest student in my enjoyed getting email

Jessamyn: like it's it's a complete alter ego, but um so he has a local back up, but there's some stuff they just don't have which like it's like I don't know who he is but I would be hiring them, you know, or like, you know, shining their name across the I mean 20,000

Jessamyn: users or 10,000 users or something crazy. So the good news is that everybody's going to get a new flag. If they want one.

Jessamyn: To be honest, I kind of feel like I brought this on myself because I've been about my flag basically non stop, since I realized I could never change it. But, um, you know, there's a lot of stuff forums just going to be gone like a lot of people that's I think the stats are pretty well backed up because other people have backups of it, but it's just ah I can't even imagine you know that's that's crazy.

Jessamyn: So you guys with your relatively

Jessamyn: short downtime. I think basically are good and tell me if I have to correct it was out of town


Cortex: was out of the country in

Cortex: contracture of football in Canada. Yeah, they're there in Canada visiting family, I think, which maybe so frugal by my understanding when I heard them anyway is a Canadian living in Austria. Oh, okay. I never knew all right yeah has a German partner family in Canada that I think originates Michigan. So there was a whole complicated Canada and the Midwest line of sort of discussion about like culture shock stuff for

Cortex: kata who is, you know, experiencing Canada, I don't know, for the first time, necessarily, but like, you know, there's used to living in, you know,

Jessamyn: Germany or Austria

Cortex: and like the expense and the spread out and lack of good transit stuff is all been like a poor like what the

Cortex: hell where it's pretty chaotic yeah

Cortex: so so so free will, kind of like has experience with that and instead just like more like oh it some of the cultural field is different now that I'm back in Canada, but so yeah there's been there's been fine running chatter in the

Cortex: mod slack about sort of the various cultural adjustments of like suddenly being in Canada, instead of Austria

Jessamyn: well and I saw a picture of from bowl with flex. I'm not sure what her username is something about mice or rats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like,

Cortex: I have never seen a picture before how if they really do exist. Yeah.

Cortex: And actually that worked out timing wise because it meant they were up to actually work on the

Jessamyn: I suppose I suppose

Cortex: we haven't we haven't said anything problematic in this whole like last five minutes and it's topical so instead of repeating ourselves. We'll just call this a really long, cold open add no really long, cold open. Welcome. Yeah, that's fine. But this is this is Episode 141 40

Cortex: this is this is a very important episode because it's an it's an episode for every character in a tweet back before they changed how many characters could be in a tweet.

Jessamyn: I was gonna be my dad was it,

Cortex: Josh. Wow. That is great. We've got we had similar instincts. You want to do your version.

Jessamyn: No.

Jessamyn: Well, well, you know,

Jessamyn: 140, whatever the number stuff is getting tiresome. But it was like 140 characters joke died at 140, which is something Wikipedia fit to tell me which I think it's bizarre and it's also the number of different kinds of pipe cigar and tobacco ashes that

Cortex: Sherlock Holmes apparently could identify knew or understood I I'm relieved that that's where that went because if someone's on Wikipedia said this is how many types. There are us with that there's no way you can be firm on that kind of like come right shut up nerds but but no sure like homestead. So it's an acceptable level of okay well that's a number you can say that is what that one fictional characters

Cortex: job right like

Jessamyn: it's the age that the Bible says Joe died at is different than like job was this old you're like

Cortex: well and then there's also like you know the Bible doesn't really say, but we decided to apply our own calendrical metric to it. And we've determined that which is like, you know, the sword of the Spirit that this is exactly how old the young earth is it started Tuesday, you know, right. We made a choice, whereas the Bible actually says, and then, you know, at age 140 he shuffled off this mortal coil and that's one of the reasons I'm actually bad at trivia is because

Jessamyn: I don't know much about the Bible and not be bothered. I don't know why, like it's a weird thing with me, you know, like there's Bible stuff and Shakespeare stuff in both of those. I just can't do it for years. I mean,

Jessamyn: I feel like,

Cortex: how much do I want to dive into like a literary analysis and cultural analysis of holy books but but I would put it this way. I would say you know as much as a huge culture influences. It turned out to be in as much as it has some interesting complicated literary things going on with it. If the Bible was not attached to a hugely successful, you know, 2000 year old religion. I don't think it would be high out a lot of book list just because things. It's a wandering mess. The language contradicts itself. It can even like you can't find a narrative through line without like doing backflips it's all very it's writing, you know,

Cortex: getting excited just for the hell of it about like getting super familiar with the details of the Bible. Seems like yeah

Jessamyn: Shakespeare is a problem to like the I did this wedding. That was a, you know, kind of a bookish wedding. It was at Boston Public Library and they had the wedding cake was made of books right and I didn't know the couple that well so I you know ripped a little bit off of the books that were in the wedding cake because it was a nerd wedding and so great. So it's like The Princess Bride, so I didn't do like the marriage thing because but you know talking about yes there's going to be kissing and whatever there was Lord of the Rings. I don't really know anything about Lord of the Rings. Surprisingly, even though I've seen the movies. But the other thing was like A Midsummer Night's Dream, which of course they misspelled on the wedding cake, which I'm just gonna die I'm gonna die but I actually don't really know that much about Midsummer Night's Dream except that I've seen the play. And I remember liking it so then I like went back and like control asked for love and again because it's a nerd wedding I could just say that I did that and then talk about the things Shakespeare says about love and I thought it was good but I was like, man, how did I get here like this age, just being like, I don't really know what that has to do with love, but I guess I'll figure it out you know Tale of Two Cities never read it all these books.

Cortex: No idea. So yeah, I don't I don't know much about Shakespeare. I don't know much about Midsummer Night's Dream, but I do know enough to know that it's a good pick. If you want to just make an easy sort of like

Cortex: adolescent joke because of the character named bottom

Jessamyn: so you can. Yeah,

Jessamyn: well, and like, you know, you don't know that much about it but you know that mid summer doesn't have a right

Cortex: you know i don't i would not spell it with a hyphen but I can't say definitively that there might not be a drifting usage at light like a like mid hyphen summer is an understandable construction, even though I like it's not the title of the place though. Yeah, yeah,

Jessamyn: I would never say this out loud to the couple or in any

Cortex: other way. But I was horrified because I am an actual nerd. And I know how it's actually spelled thankfully, we're not posting this recording publicly somewhere to be consumed by anyone who comes across it.

Jessamyn: I've made sort of no link ability with, you know, this actual

Cortex: event by telling a couple people i think i think i think mistakenly inserted hyphen is probably like the best possible case for like a style or usage or spelling error though like it's not like someone's spelled summer with one like unless that was a really complicated joke about Sumerian self, but you know like

Cortex: I don't know that's that's an acceptable level of various in my mind like worth catching out but at the same time. No, I did why waiting died. Well, like you probably would have, you know, I don't know, maybe meet me and told it from the beginning. Exactly. And this was like right early people right so you know maybe maybe it was a collective like editorial in joke, maybe like intentionally inserting a small but conspicuous copy editing air into something as simple actually prefer the there's a joke. Everyone was in on except for me version of that, let's let's just run with that we've solved it. We've solved the mystery we've we've freed up time Sherlock can spend instead classified tobacco. Ah, it's it's good work all around. We've done it.

Jessamyn: Nice work. Now I feel better. Thank you.

Jessamyn: I'm going to talk about that like one space after periods alone

Cortex: just saw thread about that this morning because someone flagged some comment in the comment was fine but I was like, No, no, I don't have time for the podcast. I don't have time before the podcast to

Jessamyn: dig in on this because you should put two spaces. Anyway, um, wait what

Cortex: I believe in the semantic content of the second space which is which is

Jessamyn: up to that point, but it's it's not nothing you double spaced after I do. Yeah,

Cortex: you just never see it because we only communicate on the web

Jessamyn: and we don't talk two sentences ever

Jessamyn: filter and I guess I never noticed

Cortex: you wouldn't notice I met a filter I I'm not I don't

Cortex: you would not notice because by standard practice possibly by by definition in like whatever WC

Cortex: documentation, but but certainly in practice for as long as I've ever noticed web browsers have collapsed consecutive marked spaces. Yeah, yeah.

Cortex: So unless you force the white space. It's going to take as many spaces, you want and clouds down one so functionally I can be both triumphantly righteous about my style preferences and everybody who thinks that the problem gets there and that's the important thing. The people who apparently I am just going to this, the people who are upset about spaces have are basically being sore winners because

Jessamyn: they are getting their way in the last every other places to read. Well, sure, but like where are those arguments happening

Cortex: right so in the common setting in which someone could play in about people putting two spaces. They never even see the two spaces and less than one goes to extraordinary effort. At which point, it's just a pedantic nerd fight you know beyond common usage and and select they are getting their way in terms of the presentation. I'm getting my way in terms of having my

Cortex: yeah we've we've all we've all actually come to a nice happy place for for internet venues. Anyway, and if I want to parse writing to distinguish between

Cortex: period terminated abbreviations like doctor and you know Mr. And Ms and whatnot and actual sentence terminal punctuation, you know, boom, there's which is a very, it's a very narrow issue and there's ways to work around it, but I like it, I like that that's there. And I wish everybody did it because they're wrong if they don't,

Jessamyn: so yes

Cortex: meta filter. I guess I guess we were talking about men filter sort of insofar as I was reading angrily about a thread. I haven't read.

Jessamyn: Wow. I mean, as,

Cortex: as one does. Yes, certainly does.

Cortex: Let's see. I guess I guess we could talk about stuff. Yeah.

Cortex: Why don't we do it while we while we leap on in there. I didn't look at jobs. I can tell you that right now. Okay, well let's let's let's real time and what's going on on jobs. I know there were some jobs I think only one is still open. Yeah,

Cortex: because our last podcast

Jessamyn: we even talked about within the last podcast was the joke show. Yeah. Third, yeah,

Jessamyn: which I thought went well actually I hope you liked it. Yeah. No. Yeah, so, you know,

Jessamyn: theoretically, if there was something perfect from Mark to we wanted to mention we could fill out. But otherwise, you know,

Cortex: all of a pro and Jobs was not super busy, but there's a few things. There's security engineering newsroom sport engineer,

Jessamyn: I suppose I could like show up in a thing. Yeah,

Jessamyn: we have a thing.

Cortex: I feel like we're really we're filing firing on all

Jessamyn: all chambers cylinders

Jessamyn: weekend. To be honest, I mean like the month kind of snuck up on me. I don't know about you, and then I was like doing a wedding, you know, and so I was totally like No, I can't. And then, yesterday I was coming back from the wedding. And so we're doing on a Sunday morning, afternoon, which is not our normal

Cortex: yeah I don't know the last time we did a Sunday,

Cortex: but hey, whatever you know let's let's just look let's let's let our hair down my hair's longer have to be down meaningfully at this point. So, mine, mine is down because I sleep with it down and I'm not actually out of my pajamas yet yeah

Jessamyn: so perfect.

Cortex: Well hey there's stuff on projects. There's a really nice post from Aspen k f, actually. So Dan f passed away a couple years ago I remember dad his daughter got a hold of us ended up signing up for meta filter and talking about Dan a bit in the meta talk obit thread and she's posted a site collecting a bunch of his music recordings based

Cortex: online catalog and archive, which is remember I remember when she was. Yeah,

Jessamyn: she came around originally

Cortex: yeah

Cortex: that's really nice. And yeah, it's a really, really nice sort of archive and Testament Dan and

Jessamyn: yeah he was really active on meta chat as well as meta filter, which I think actually maybe where I sort of got to know him. But yes, like to play guitar was a nice dude we answered some questions.

Jessamyn: Speaking of music

Jessamyn: makes deeper whiskey Park. We've talked about how to pronounce Caesars name before Mike sigh Park Plex I punk

Jessamyn: clicking through to

Jessamyn: Mike that guy mike mike who does music stuff has a podcast for your W and it's all about like music stories more information about music stories. It's eight episodes and just like weird stories about stuff and one of them is about Louie Louie and one of them is about a pirate radio station web a DS or if you're somebody who kind of like that stuff. If you want to know where the shags are now if you want to know about that McDonald's Flexi does that no one can find you would probably really enjoy this looks. Well, speaking of podcast. There's a new from Super flu Assam and Griffis called the microphone

Jessamyn: a picture of Griffis on Instagram talking into a microphone and I was like, I think it's like completely erotically like we hang out. If I'm in New York. And yet, a lot of the rest of the time I just see his pictures on Instagram, but occasionally will like email about stuff and I had been meaning to be like purpose. Why are you talking to your microphone so thanks because of News Radio because of classic sitcom

Cortex: News Radio. So wake

Jessamyn: News Radio.

Jessamyn: No, no, but oh they're discussing the radio. All right, right, right.

Jessamyn: Yes, it is elder statesman of all

Jessamyn: but it wasn't very like sort of body projects not spotty in the content or the quality but there wasn't a lot in April, everybody's doing their taxes.

Jessamyn: Can I just talk about Texas. Yes, please. I did six taxes this year or like between me and my sister. We did taxes. That's a lot of Texas now too many taxes. How are we counting a tax here like

Jessamyn: you did. So I did my tax okay I did malt shop tax okay I did my mother's tax. We did the state tax my sister did her tax and then there was one more tax that I can't remember, but it was just a lot of taxes and you know I did none of them really like you know sort of managed people doing taxes but you know checks were written over and over again and

Jessamyn: at any rate, I was so happy when they were all finished and everybody was paid and a government was paid and you may have been following the fact that like basically every February, Vermont decides to audit me for no reason because because of the way my sister and I have structured some of the stuff we own together yeah Vermont's like you own, you owe more money. And I'm like, No, no, no, my sister owns that half and she pays Massachusetts Vermont's like prove it. And I was like, No, I proved it last year. They're like we are inexorable immovable machine prove it again. And last year I think I finally got through them because this year. In February, I received no audit. Yay,

Jessamyn: a happy. I mean, it's hard to pay taxes under Trump because I hate him but like there are still social programs that received my money that helped things that he hasn't managed to dismantle and especially in Vermont like Texas go to all sorts of good things, but I resent the additional paperwork. So I wish I could remember the tax.

Cortex: I feel like the meta filter and then personal tax stuff all went successfully

Cortex: thanks basically entirely to my CPA

Jessamyn: got a CPA my guy seriously I I'm gonna have to move to

Jessamyn: another country with no taxes if something ever happened to my guy

Jessamyn: but you know I kind of offensive. He has email. He's mellowed so when I'm like I'm getting audited. He's like, Wow, well let's let's figure that out. It just hasn't been like

Jessamyn: for that hamburger you ate last year. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Cortex: No, no. Basically, same with mine. He's very chill and then friendly and and females well and and whatnot so well here's a question about your Texas right because you've got an

Jessamyn: expensive hobby but it's definitely a hobby that costs more than like building more terrarium like because that's kind of, I guess, a potential like

Jessamyn: this

Cortex: hobby like is that

Cortex: takes some extra work to really make it work as a business expenses and whatnot. So I'm sort of like I talked about that with me and it was like well okay so this is this is how we make the difference between basically hot stuff and like more legit business structure where expect that you're working artists basically I'm just gonna need to spend more time and effort on it before. I'm going to care enough for it to be worth the effort. So, you know,

Cortex: we'll see maybe one day. But for now, now I just that is something I do in my spare time.

Jessamyn: Well you got a home office right yeah

Jessamyn: anyway taxes there and now they have nothing to stop.

Cortex: We got past them and

Cortex: I know

Cortex: let's let's talk about like let's just let's just talk. Let's just sign you up for learning league. They had a catastrophic failure, there is that so I so I guess I'm gonna have to upload my my flag. Again, it's basically what your flag looks amazing, by the way. Well, thank you.

Cortex: It really was 50% of the motivation was like hey I gotta I gotta have a red flag okay like that got me on board,

Cortex: but

Cortex: I'm excited for that to start. I'm excited to see if I it's there's there's a whole friend thing do you I wanted to ask you about this, this is this is now the learned league beginner podcast, because I was on the podcast with Matt talking about and that

Jessamyn: was actually a thing that happened last month. Yeah. Yeah.

Cortex: Did we talk I was That was the last yeah there was a meta talk thread about that. I'll find that I think we're just gonna free from this one I think we're gonna be jumping all over the place is how I'm feeling but yeah you run a podcast Matt has a new podcast,

Cortex: a person named Matt Howie on the internet. Yeah,

Cortex: has has a new podcast where he's talking to people about their hobbies and such and

Cortex: and yeah he interviewed you about your alerted league stuff yeah he wanted to interview me about like kind of my

Cortex: you know because

Jessamyn: I am an elected representative I'm active in my town

Cortex: really and

Jessamyn: I honestly think he kind of couldn't find a hook

Jessamyn: which fine like I get it, like you're kind of either super kind of not until he said he was like, well, let's talk about learned league and I was like he's like well you know I'm on learned league. I was like, it

Jessamyn: has been

Cortex: for a year,

Jessamyn: but he got signed up. I like somebody at work, who did a terrible job of telling him how it all works. And what's cool about it and how you link up with people there in the forums and so we had a great rambling talk about you know what it's like and why I like it. And the fact that, you know, I was joining us air. I mean, the podcast is really good. In general, like I've listened to some other episodes of it and you know no surprise Matt does a great job.

Jessamyn: But it was really fun to sort of talk to him about something to basically nothing to do with a filter. You know what I mean yeah

Cortex: yeah it's it's such an odd thing like we we between like the three of us and other folks involvement, but I'll have this long sort of working and collegial and friendly, you know, overlapping of interactions tied up and all this times when I'm at a filter so it's still weird for me to stop and sort of decouple those sometimes right thinking about, like, you know,

Cortex: talking to you about stuff talking to Matt about stuff you know it's it's just such a it's such a dominant through line on sort of like

Jessamyn: that that personal history together that's like

Jessamyn: they're so they're kind of day to day like I was trying to explain it. This wedding like

Jessamyn: how do I know these other people. I'm like, Well, I don't know, kind of like Internet like what does that mean, Internet people. I'm like, you know, like I'm famous on the internet and I'm just trying to think of it, I'm like oh filter like I ran that for a while and then they knew what that was, even though they weren't sort of heavy users. And I was like, Oh, thank god like otherwise I don't even know what it means

Cortex: I I was I was having an abbreviated sort of explaining meta filter conversation with someone from the oh geez, one of the one of the manufacturing companies. I've talked to in the last week because of that asked me to filter question about the house numbers which I should just talk about that some because

Jessamyn: I thought I was pleased because I came into that story in the middle and I

Cortex: have no idea what yeah yeah so yeah like Yeah, you've probably seen it as much as anything on Twitter me tweeting incessantly about it. So there was this question I'm

Cortex: asked me to filter. Yeah. No, I'm trying to think of the date April 30 bows out like a week ago

Cortex: last Sunday or Monday we don't say that the day on the dateline so I have to just crush it doesn't really matter.

Jessamyn: I'm just

Cortex: I'm trying, I'm trying to set a tone of certainty about timing. That's the magic. That's what it is.

Cortex: Monday. Okay, yeah. Monday user john Gordon post a question asked Matt says, What's the title face used on American street addresses. Specifically, you know, thinking about the last season Twin Peaks is wondering what the distinctive font is used for st dresses like a couple examples is pulled out. Yeah, these, these are some of styling houses California other places. I wonder where this started because it is kind of a weird

Jessamyn: non Sarah whoopee like they don't just look like any regular like if you were just going to draw number. They've got a little bit of time to them in an odd way, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

Cortex: It's got a specific sort of look to it and and I saw this question.

Cortex: I actually saw this question. I didn't come across it naturally. There was a flag on a comment in it

Cortex: and this came up on Twitter and I very mixed feelings about this. There was a comment like second comment in the thread is Kevin belt saying well technically my font because it's not type, but those are just standard house numbers you buy a home depot. The link to his on metal is on learning to by the way he's

Jessamyn: one of my referrals yeah lat long time longtime if i a goodie this this this answer got

Cortex: flagged I think somewhat understandably as sort of like, well, that's not really answering any questions in it. You're just sort of saying you can buy them at Home Depot. But on the other hand,

Jessamyn: that when you say I wonder where this started and somebody like the most popular place to buy house number sells them that way. Yeah.

Cortex: Well, no, and that's that's the thing. So it ends up sort of connecting the word and started to where is it now thing because like if these are popular they're being sold somewhere and if they're being sold somewhere, they're being sold by someone. And there's questions to answer following that line of inquiry and, you know, so I saw this question. I checked out the flags like that's that's okay. And then I started thinking I was like this is then I started doing some googling thing I'm going to solve this, and I did not solid data fun feeling though

Jessamyn: I like that feeling. I do as much of that during my waking hours as possible and it keeps me completely happy and I should do it more like this part of what I have learned from the last week of about this question is that

Cortex: while obsessing for an entire week about a question is probably not workable I should really try and like put myself in this position on Ask me more often because like I don't tend to engage with human relations questions very much there

Cortex: yeah I mean some people really do and like my them on a regular basis and

Cortex: I had a question about your brother, maybe for later. All right. But anyway, like this sort of thing. I feel like I could pick it up more and I did dig in on this a bunch and I ended up like doing some research and leaving a thing, saying, Well, here's what I found so far,

Cortex: which is

Cortex: a few things I found a few things so far. I think I found where they started with some help from someone who runs the Fred Jones Twitter account which is their type of company of some sort or design company or something

Cortex: and they said hey you know I got a catalog that might be helpful. I can tend to scam like it back the offices, like, that'd be great. And the next morning they scanned a couple pages from like circa 1927 ish

Jessamyn: like older than that.

Cortex: Well, and so, so some of these things

Cortex: are just the graveyard one. Yes.

Cortex: And that's a look at that seven. It's very similar seven. Yeah, it's that same thing. Yeah, the two is much more sort of filigree but it's also definitely they're both in the same general feeling as the font, we're talking about and I'll include a link to the font in well it's in the question, but I'll include some others probably too when we post this but basically it started it seems like the earliest manufacturer, I can find for this. And that doesn't mean it's when people started making it but of course hw night

Cortex: and son from Seneca Falls, New York was selling them in a catalog in the mid late 20s and

Cortex: as Kevin belted in his answer about

Cortex: the Home Depot and causes a well it's not type. So it's not technically a font, but more to the point, I think it's not even if you can be pedantic or not, I don't think my feeling is that this even is like from a specific font or typeface the impression I get looking at the catalog in 1927 is that there was a style which your grave marker shows like is not something that was invented by these people but hw night created these you know metal form the mass chaos person and that may have been when it started being thing you know may have been them. It may have been someone else like it's it's one of the things where like if you can't find the evidence. It doesn't mean it's not there, but this is the oldest evidence. I've been able to find if someone's evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence, or the other way around. Yeah,

Jessamyn: but these folks were definitely selling this stuff in the early 20s or in the in the 20s I'm done going to be honest it's probably just kinda curious, not like oh please do your PhD theses Oh yeah. Yeah, no, no. I know definitively so that seems like a good

Jessamyn: we've got this far. That's pretty far

Cortex: yeah good yeah so that it seems like a likely starting point anyway but but the things are still sold today and they're not sold today by something that is a logical subsidiary of the original hw night like so I've managed to track down like four different corporate narrative, each of which has produced a version of this at some point, some of which still do some of which I did. And then don't anymore. I've got basically the text file equivalent of red string attached to a bunch of photographs that I will wrap it

Cortex: but that via those Twitter the Twitter thread I I ended up making basically goes into all the real research and weird dances that currently got a book out about house numbers that was one book about house numbers. You can find it libraries written a few years ago and I kind of assumed was going to be. You got a book out about how yeah yeah there's a book called

Cortex: yes house numbers a forgotten history or something like that. I don't have a great next me right pull it out but it's an Tom something it's like 128 pages and it's got a bunch of pictures in it and I sort of assumed when I checked it out. That was gonna be a bunch of pictures and some fluffy writing you know some basically bathroom reader stuff and instead it actually opens with what feels like kind of strident libertarian thesis in on on the fundamentally you know unjust and like it's weird. It feels like it's basically taking the position of contempt for the very concept of the state and the house number as fundamentally a tool of surveillance and oppression,

Cortex: which I think there's interesting argument to be made there but it's not what is expecting from this book full of pictures of numbers. Is it a compelling

Cortex: I I was sort of cockeyed enough reading it and being surprised that was even the tone that I feel like I need to go back and read through it again. I feel like it's a little bit sloppily written it feels a little bit more polemic than like really stayed thesis, you know, and so in that sense, it feels a little bit like someone corroborating on their blog but in fancy words,

Cortex: I don't know, it's weird and I haven't like you know there's 60 pages or so of texts and I've gotten through the first 20 or so. So I'm kind of curious where it's going to go but

Cortex: but it's it's interesting, and it's been an interesting twist on this whole research project but yeah so I've been, I've been excited about that question and I've been paying way too much attention to house numbers and tweeting about it and getting suggestions and feedback from people and bond cliff is complaining that all of his Amazon results are now

Jessamyn: house numbers and

Jessamyn: sorry man

Jessamyn: fabulous sorry

Cortex: took pictures of his apartment building numbers. Yeah, so I'm glad that made me infecting some people with this because I can't not like look at every

Jessamyn: house I pass. Now I'll be like, okay, but it's that well no, that's but

Cortex: which manufacturer. I don't know is that new or is that old it's a whole thing. So anyway, that

Jessamyn: that has been a good time and I like that asked me to filter. Good job. JOHN Curran setting my brain on fire, apparently. Well, I mean, this thing they talk about about library people right like the line. I've probably said it before on the podcast is that like librarians like to search everyone else likes to find

Jessamyn: and so you may have gotten to the point now where you to enjoy. You know,

Jessamyn: the search

Cortex: down

Cortex: for two years people put up their hands

Cortex: don't

Jessamyn: she's always been jealous.

Jessamyn: And if that actually that might be an okay lead into

Jessamyn: sort of slightly related posts by led to a the one on people who love well

Jessamyn: loves things is too much is the title, but basically it's an article in catapult basically about kind of how do you talk about the things you're super obsessed about in quote unquote polite conversation and it's written by a woman who has autism. She sought to stick and she basically tried to sort of figure out like she's a nerd, you know, among nerds and still she's like, how much do you talk about the things yeah with other people and it's an interesting article kind of from the inside out right like I know about my obsessions and how I feel about it, but I also feel like I'm, you know,

Jessamyn: somewhere in the neural typical range. I mean who knows right but i think so and so. But looking at somebody who's super into whatever the thing is, and figuring out how much to talk about it when you know you're not neurotypical about these things. Yeah, really interesting article and turned into kind of a

Jessamyn: pretty interesting thread

Cortex: yeah I experienced that one more for a moderation perspective. Yeah. But yeah, like, Yeah, I thought that the portions of the conversation that I wasn't like helping manage I thought were interesting so well ready because I mean

Jessamyn: because there's so many people who share that

Jessamyn: characteristic who are perfectly happy sort of speaking for themselves, you know, as opposed to like people who have other kinds of disabilities who may be also can't be quite as communicative about it. You know, you get a whole bunch of people who are like this. How it feels from the inside of my head and then you get other people being like, oh god I talked to you at a party once and it was super whatever. And I don't know, it's interesting to look at that sort of social issue from a whole bunch of different directions. But yes, there were some meta filter people who definitely really

Jessamyn: sort of manage that conversation, the way maybe they needed to which was ironic given the topic of conversation, but it's also really interesting. So I think people should

Jessamyn: read it and yeah.

Cortex: Gosh, what else did I get up to this month with a meta filter. Oh, you know, I brought me. He asked me to tell people, thanks for all the good answers and help on her question about

Cortex: Victorian sneaky

Jessamyn: question. This question was so interesting. So I rushed McGee is like writing a thing. And she's got two characters are supposed to have this kind of like lead on and they're kind of well off like where did they connect

Jessamyn: to hook up

Jessamyn: and it's not like a central part of the story. So it just needs to be kinda, you know,

Jessamyn: a minor issue, but they can't check into a hotel for reasons, you know, but it's important that they have some place to hook up.

Jessamyn: All right, Victorian How

Jessamyn: does this work

Jessamyn: and it was it was super fun. There was a whole bunch of people who had, you know, different ways to kind of work through and around that specific problem, you know, hook it up in a horse run

Jessamyn: ah the library, the same places. Everybody hooked up nowadays. Honestly, but I thought it was fun to read. Yeah,

Jessamyn: I actually didn't comment in a

Jessamyn: single mother filters read for the entire month of April, because I was so busy taxing so there was a whole bunch of stuff, of course that I looked at another filter and looked at on asking a filter. Do you want to start with either one of them, let's jump into some meta filter.

Jessamyn: Okay,

Jessamyn: so we were talking about that other meta filter and I really liked this post Moodle book lady and I feel like we're on kind of the same wavelength and this was article from haka haka magazine about coastal science and coastal societies and basically things that are written on the outside of ships

Jessamyn: that are running only supposed to be a thing that other people like that the boats are supposed to look that great like it has nothing to do with you and your human eyeballs, but like, what, what can you see and what does it mean and so there's some beautiful

Cortex: photography and just I learned a couple things, ya know, I saw that go by and that's that's unlike get back to it list because I really enjoyed the glimpses eyesight is like a busy day or something boat language. That's sweet. I'll get back to it and and like so many things. It just sort of wanders off distance. Yeah,

Jessamyn: but one thread kind of perfect metaphor to post. Yeah,

Cortex: that's great. I liked this little post from space burglar about printing techniques, just looking at non press printing techniques but you know like wood cuts and linoleum and trans filters on wood block 100

Jessamyn: first one.

Cortex: As always super super presidency and pop up. So yeah,

Cortex: not a whole lot to say. But it's just like some nice videos pretty techniques and stuff. And if you feel like chilling out that go do it because it's cool.

Jessamyn: Oh, one of the things that I really liked a lot which I thought was maybe gonna go weird and sideways ended that I don't think it's it was Molly Ringwald so like if you were me and you grew up in the 80s like the john Hughes movies with Molly Ringwald were basically either

Jessamyn: what your life was or what you

Jessamyn: kind of hoped your life might be you know what I mean like they were kind of a typical reality that was accessible to sort of outsiders and nerds, and not just like weird princess stuff or weird, whatever. So those movies were incredibly formative to me and Molly Ringwald has kind of grown up to be, you know, super interesting lady with Daughters of her own. And she talked about looking at The Breakfast Club movies and her relationship with john Hughes, who has died and you know about what that was like, and some of the things she said about the movies at the time things that changed some of the things she did not say at the time and she looks at him now. And she's like oh my god we're in the age of, sort of, meet you and everything else she watches the movies with your teenage daughter and talks about kind of the things the conversations they had fascinating. The article itself fascinating looking at how those movies hold up in 2018 because I kind of thought about it. But then I never really thought thought about it. And so it was and she's very well spoken an interesting person. So it was really interesting as an article, like it was probably the best like long form article that I read from meta filter

Jessamyn: this month. And it was interesting hearing other people talk about how things were formative or not formative for them. If the movies hit them not you know that the right time. Kind of, yeah. Yeah.

Cortex: No, it is an interesting

Cortex: sort of collective generational stop and look back because it does feel like part of it is how much they were not just like, oh, that was the movie that was popular but that was like that was like the social milieu and commentary and touchstone so much for a lot of people who grew up around that john who's era. So like people look back at Star Wars and, like, okay, there's this huge nostalgia for Star Wars and whatnot, but people weren't really sort of modeling their social sensibilities on Star Wars that same way people might have sort of right and wasn't also reflecting as much of a social sensibility as yeah Breakfast Club or whatever. Yeah. So some of the messaging that the movie had yeah like Star Wars doesn't really have the capacity to get in the same kind of retroactive trouble of changing mores looking back as, like, Well, yeah. Back then, we thought lasers for okay but you know it's like yeah so yeah, no, it's really interesting and yeah she's seems pretty great. Also, she's Archie Andrews's mom on Riverdale

Jessamyn: now watch Riverdale but knee, technically,

Cortex: that's a spoiler. They tease a lot of absent parent to then turn out to be an actor you recognize when they finally show up on the show, but it's not really ah yeah plus that show such a as someone was saying I saw this on Twitter somewhere recently someone saying something about the idea of Riverdale as an Exquisite Corpse project where each episode is written by someone who's only seen the like immediate proceeding episode like that's what last was about to be perfectly honest. I feel like there may be a similar sort of thing going on there some big arc of aspirations and then like zero discipline or follow through. And right now, she's on it. So there you go. If you want some Molly Ringwald boom. I enjoyed this post

Cortex: you absolute coat hanger by her degree to girl, which is a post. It's just a post of like a funny about the absolute unit. It wasn't wasn't no it was sort of playing off of that.

Cortex: Okay. They're probably yeah yeah so this is this is only sort of related. This is a Tumblr post conversation on Tumblr about using various

Cortex: pretended adjectives to to say things. So like, yeah, you can make nearly any object into a good insult if you put you absolute in front of it. For example, you absolute coat hanger right as well. You can add ed to inner objects and sounds like you were really drunk example I was absolutely coat hanger last night and it just goes on. It's funny, it says like Tumblr. A few people on Tumblr riffing on the thing and then it turns into a meta filter threat of people ripping on a thing and then people trying to prise out some of the inconsistent. These are difficulties and I think the the absolute unit that she does come up somewhere in the context of all that, too, but it's just a fun yeah people do talk about that. And then there was a earlier thread on men of filter about the absolute unit which

Jessamyn: oh my god I have not

Jessamyn: so much

Jessamyn: as I did during the two or three days like it just kind of hit me in the field for some reason I don't know why you know it was basically. So it was just really wonderful joyful. It's the Museum of English rural life texted a picture of a big fat right down and the entire text is look at this absolute unit and for whatever reason it's a black and white photo of a Jeep Ram and for whatever reason, it just took the hell off and the meta filter thread is, you know, the AV news article about the thing. But basically, they've got like a 28 year old social media guy who not only posted this one thing which whatever but when it hit in this kind of viral way was ready for it and so not only kind of did a whole bunch of very interesting parlaying and bouncing back and forth and it the jokes or whatever but like they came to the name of the Twitter account from the Museum of rural life to the museum of absolute units for a couple days and posted a whole bunch of stuff about their library, which made me lose my mind because it was so cool talking about like how they found the picture and what kinds of stuff they have in the library of museum rural life and you know riffing back and forth with a whole bunch of other people and the guy who does it you know wrote a medium article about

Jessamyn: you know

Jessamyn: his I guess they say sick boy I got the word the fake which I actually did not know

Jessamyn: i mean i didn't i whatever you can figure out what the hell it is but I didn't really know it and it was just so cool and and the guys article for medium is just hilarious and good and so it was just a thing you could just enjoy. There was nothing wrong with it to the best of my knowledge, there was no problematic aspects of it. It was just something goofy takes off, etc. I think was kind of before or after it because the threats like

Cortex: right yeah now it seems like it could have gotten bigger than it was. I think it just like hitting a weird way but but I'm glad I got documented

Cortex: them

Cortex: people people. Let's just do my shouting people

Cortex: there's a new artist drying the cartoon strip Nancy, did you see this. No, I mean, I was wondering why people were talking about Nancy all the sudden yeah it's because after many years of the previous artists, a new artist has taken over the strip and it's someone going through to Donna mostly by Olivia James and whoever she is she's doing a good job and it's it's weird because it's like it's both doting Lee Nancy and also really clearly being drawn and written in the 21st and because it's like lots of coming out of the gate with a lot of sort of like social media and communication jokes. Yeah, but it's been it's been interesting because like it's one of those things were like yeah it's a crusty crusty old strip, but to some extent it's got more like that's still a thing. Yeah, it's like, wait, Nancy still exists and it turns out, part of it is Nancy still exists. I mean, these things exist in syndication forever because whatever it's what people are used to seeing and going super modern with the writing for Nancy is kind of a weird trick because it's a fast the old strip and it's been really sort of stagnating for a while and so giving people what they want, by keeping the strip around but then not giving them. They want by writing something fresh and new so we're like okay is it going to work out. But in the meantime, the scripts are good. They're funny and they're weird and Nancy was originally written and drawn by a guy named Ernie bush Miller back you know early 20th century

Cortex: and it was like a weird surreal absurdist gag strip out then. And that's what it is now it's just a gig about, you know, social media. Now, as much as it's going to be a gig about people having water hose fight. Right, right, right. Well, and I don't know about you, but for me it was kind of a real awakening at the point at which I realized that like people who are sort of illustrators and comic book artists like they've drawn their own style, but in a lot of cases, they can write or draw in any style. I mean, not everybody but a lot of people who do comics could just as well take over somebody else's comic, you know,

Jessamyn: like they could do peanuts or whatever and it wouldn't quite be Charles Schulz but it wouldn't totally not sure you know that for a lot of artists. I mean, I think I learned this when I was, you know, reading about Mad Magazine and so you know they'd be certain things that were like done by a person, but then other things like the covers were done by kind of the random a different person. Each time yeah and illustrators and illustration was a lot more flexible than I had ever really thought about because as a person who doesn't really draw on

Jessamyn: just being able to draw my own style would be a big deal, but that's driving someone else's that would be impossible. Yeah, yeah.

Cortex: It seems like a whole complicated self discipline on its own. Yeah,

Jessamyn: so yes you absolute I loved it. Yeah. A couple other like little kind of library of stuff things that I like from metal filter include Catholicism BB sound effects free to download sound effects from the BBC 16,000 of them who are interesting, weird stuff. Go check though makes a ringtone nice and then this post by which is guys YouTube channel that just has a lot of old timey Doom on it and kind of old black and white

Jessamyn: footage of lots of different random stuff that's kind of really fun to click around on No, I totally didn't see that. Yeah. Yeah,

Cortex: I thought so

Cortex: I dug a couple other things. And then we want to ask

Cortex: I like this right up fearful symmetry posted an article about sort of development in a blue pigment and the the fellow who discovered it looking for

Cortex: a red and it's sort of that the article is good

Cortex: stuff going on. So this guy discovered this blue several years ago I was like 2009 or something

Cortex: and has been sort of like going through development stuff with it. Since then, people who want to use you know pigments for industrial and commercial color processes want to be real sure about like how long it stands up for one thing. So there's been as well as things where you actually have to spend years testing something to really definitively establish how it's going to be pave over time. I guess part of it is just the time yeah yeah you can accelerate some of that to some extent by changing conditions but you really have to stress test it, because if you're gonna paint something on the assumption that's gonna stay nice and vibrant for 30 years

Cortex: you aren't gonna say oh well had it for a week and sounds good. So let's just run with it, you know, but the article talks about like looking for a safe, stable cheap red too because reds are also kind of tricky and there's plenty out there but that's are always the ones that stayed off of the

Jessamyn: bumper stickers. Right. Yeah. I mean, a lot of times for whatever reason. Yeah,

Cortex: so like light fatness fastest and durability under strong lighting conditions is like a big aspect of color like there's a lot of really vibrant colors that are vibrant as long as, like, you know, you just deployed them and don't expose them to the world, but that doesn't work to keep them in a box so yeah so that's the thing. If you're printing it in a magazine. It's totally different than if you're painting it on the side of a storage tank. Yeah, yeah. If you go and look at like you know shops like I always think of like hair salons with old posters like they put up a poster like 510 years ago in the window of, you know, some hairstyle or you know someone selling glasses or something and you walk by it. And today it's just like it's nothing but blue. It's like blue and white and it's totally faded because the light fastest of that blue ink is a whole lot better than the light fastest of whatever the, you know, yellow and readings where they just didn't stand up to that, you know,

Cortex: radiation is actually over time from all the sunlight. Right. And so yeah, there are reds that are very, very light fast iron oxide is or like classic and it hold up really well, but it's not a big bright and vibrant cherry red. You know, it's more of an earthy rusty sort of red so people want they want everything they want it to be bright they want it to be cheap they want it to be like fast they want it to be non toxic

Cortex: and it's it's partly sort of about the idea of like, well, maybe the process we use to generate this blue can generate that red. If we look in the right place the generated other colors based on that same formulation, but they haven't got the red yet so it's sort of talking about that it's a work in process. Yeah,

Jessamyn: I work in progress.

Cortex: There was also a big discussion on meta filter about a much bigger discussion on and around Stack Overflow and

Cortex: meta filter, but I was very following it on the larger internet yeah I'm curious to see where it goes. And I have some longest comments on it because you would be surprised to hear I have thoughts about like moderation and online communities and whatnot. But yeah,

Cortex: it's a couple hundred comments a discussion on meta filter sort of about people's experiences with Stack Overflow. And what does work and what doesn't and it's got that inevitable sort of tension to it, you know,

Cortex: in total in the thread, you have a big mix of people with a variety of levels of experience with Stack Overflow, and a variety of experiences and it's a mix of people who like us deck over a lot actually identify as you know sort of Stack Overflow is more of their homes on the internet and there's people who read it. A lot of people are like, I'm read it identified versus I use Reddit and I can tell you that the mechanics. Yes. So that whole spectrum is there and people have various experiences and in this context. A lot of people are sort of talking critically about things they don't like about Stack Overflow or culture or their experiences but then you inevitably get sir like this, people who identify strongly with Stack Overflow or, like, Hey, why are people being so mean about this and people who were like trying to like fire. Yeah. And so it's complicated. The way you would expect you know there's a variety of stuff and mostly a bunch of good discussion and a little bit hothead and popping up here there but that's a pretty good read.

Cortex: It's a much better read than basically every thread. I've seen on Stack Overflow about it, which has been really kind of dispiriting because there's a lot of

Cortex: you can stand the the dynamic of defensive this coming up there, like the same way like if someone's talking critically about meta filter and that comes up in meta talk, there's going to be people being defensive about meta filter. You know I I've certainly been that person to some extent you know with varying levels of justification, but so like the dynamics understandable but it's really kind of disconcerting having seen things get more thoughtful and more sort of nuance and how many filter as a community tends to deal with two subjects today stack overflows community kind of basically saying, well, there's not a problem in any way. If there's a problem. You didn't framework white and anyway even person and you shouldn't be here any yeah and the actual problem is this and what do you mean like I I know a guy who is a person of color on the site so clearly it's welcoming to people of color. I mean, we're all familiar with yeah basically every every way, you can kind of expected to go has shown up and

Jessamyn: well and that's why I appreciate. I appreciate it. The j Hamlin wrote like a really long bit about it like actually if our websites, full of. It's our fault. Yeah, you know, talked about that and like what they needed to do as a company because they couldn't make each individual person do

Cortex: yeah and and Joseph Boesky and Jeff Atwood both posted on their blogs about it live stuff recently. Oh man, I was getting into it with a Neil over Twitter

Jessamyn: I like normally if you would just said like Neil are fighting who is right like I would have an opinion without even reading what they said. And this conversation that I saw went a different direction. And I was surprised. Yeah, like without getting too into it because doesn't matter. Sure, like they were on different sides of this in a way that surprised me. Well, yeah. And like I expect them to be on different sides I was surprised to see

Cortex: some of what both of them said, Oh, Neil Sean for the medical to thread to say, Well, here's some thoughts from my perspective, as you know, full disclosure, a board member and

Cortex: and some people are like, well, you have, but that's that's kind of not what I was sort of hoping expecting to hear from you on that because this and whatnot. Right. So yeah, you know,

Jessamyn: uh, Neil because he runs a big tech company to has a very particular perspective on like what's possible. What's practical what Stack Overflow is trying to do. And also it's super interesting with him because he's still like an old school dude in tech, despite the fact that I don't think he's, you know, part of bro culture at all yeah he's friends with those guys and doesn't always have the perspective on it. I would expect.

Jessamyn: You know what I mean. Yeah. Yeah.

Cortex: No, it's it's it the texture that brings to sort of like the dynamics of the kind of conversation is is interesting. Yeah,

Jessamyn: and I don't know, Jeff out with that much he sent me a yo yo in the mail. Recently, though, so that was nice, but I kind of expected that would to be a little bit like he was a little surprised how in the hell was just, you know, apropos of nothing hadn't been posted this also on the medium and I actually posted a response, not a long one, but one just because I just finished up teaching my community engagement class at the University of Hawaii and it was all about teaching people how to engage with community, mostly in real life not online but we had assignments to interact with online communities. I made them like do an edit on Wikipedia for one live one wrath and I made them get an account with Stack Exchange and interact with one of the communities there and I understand the Stack Overflow Stack Exchange line is confusing to you know like Stack Exchange is a platform Stack Overflow is one specific instance of that platform, though, arguably the most important

Cortex: or not important, but like most

Cortex: like the touchdown. Yeah.

Jessamyn: And so I had my students interact there and like out of 14 students

Jessamyn: mechanism.

Jessamyn: You know what I mean.

Jessamyn: And the two that didn't were people who had niche expertise like one of them was like a fish you know aquarium fish expert and found her aquarium people that she was really stoked about it. And one of them was like a comic book nerd guy and everyone else was like, Wow, those people were rude

Jessamyn: or whatever, you know, some of its just, hey, you throw people into the deep end and it's not a pleasant experience. No matter what, but some of it was like to they could identify pretty easily that it's not a place for news for a number of reasons. Even though I think there's a lot of things that are baked into the platform that should be making it more like that. So I think the interesting part of that conversation is you tried to bake in so much positive engagement stuff oh my god it's still not working, you know like, what is it about your community. That means that even those things don't

Jessamyn: kind of sticks. Yeah. And, you know, part of it is there, just a little bit more hands on than i mean you know meta filter is high touch right like I always say, and you know Stack Overflow is very much. Yeah.

Cortex: And then, yeah, I mean it was intentionally designed to be sort of like you know sort of tool and tool set driven rather than

Cortex: you know it's yeah that's

Jessamyn: how you get what you you know that's at scale. That's part of it, it was intended to have scalability to a level that you know, but it's also doesn't it. But yeah, I found that whole thing, but I hadn't read this thread so I'll go back i think i think it's worth reading.

Jessamyn: Actually, it's just

Jessamyn: from like a week ago, which is interesting because didn't that all happen

Cortex: long

Cortex: the post from Jay I think was basically contemporary there so

Jessamyn: time compression that there's I mean

Cortex: what time feeling weird lately I don't

Cortex: time

Cortex: you want talk about some filter.

Jessamyn: I would like

Jessamyn: there were a lot of kind of survey questions

Jessamyn: that I enjoyed starting with slightly earlier in the month. What is this stuff in the toilet does not see this one. Well, didn't really go the way you thought but basically you know you go into a public restroom, especially like a ladies room so you're using like toilet, not a all Why is there like this weird shredded paper clump in. By the way, here's a picture and

Jessamyn: you know people sort of talk about like why is, you know, how do people use public restrooms, you know, they make these weird gasket things

Jessamyn: you know they have often they have like toilet paper that's supposed to disintegrate but doesn't flush mechanisms work differently, blah so it wasn't a very long thread, but it was kind of interesting. And I was like, Hey, I know the yesterday I spent a lot of time in public restrooms and it's pretty interesting. Yeah,

Cortex: that's great.

Cortex: I thought this was interesting. There's a question from 100 jars of sky

Cortex: asking about the practice of giving your parents in allowance and

Cortex: that takes and this is specifically, and I'm glad it worked out that way basically saying, Hey, here's the very specifics are like Chinese cultural thing. Can I get answers from people with that experience and the threat did not fill up with like well as a person born and raised in in Michigan to, you know, like Methodist, you know, parents, I've never heard of those, you know, it's like

Cortex: people actually read the question and didn't answer if they didn't have a good answer. Basically, which is great. And yeah, this whole thing like unfamiliar to me. I hadn't been exposed to that practice at all. So it was interesting to learn about

Jessamyn: No, I didn't know about it either. I found it interesting and you know because I've just got my sort of again my sort of New England good Caucasian upbringing and I have very specific ideas about sort of my cultures practice towards money and your parents like it's not just like oh I never thought about it. It's like, No, I've seriously thought about it and for like it was always like a thing with my mother like who would pay for lunch kind of thing and it and it changed according to some very specific milestones, you know, and so it was fascinating reading, you know, slightly different culture versions of expectations because I understand the expectations and sort of how we did or did not line up with them and then this is different.

Jessamyn: I enjoyed it.

Jessamyn: I

Jessamyn: also enjoyed sort of this survey question by Queen about like, all right, doggie bags and I yeah we've seen this

Jessamyn: probably although

Cortex: I mean I could

Cortex: for to like come into like ending up asking a question related to this, but

Jessamyn: I've seen it before but I didn't find it with the obvious tags and now that we've got like similar tags search which Oh my god. Am I happy about that Trimble You are amazing. Yeah.

Jessamyn: So basically, like, you know, you go to a restaurant, eat some food. You got some leftover you take it home Yes or No. Is that considered go. She's that even the thing you could do. Why or why not blah and, like, one of the things that's really interesting about this, which I don't think about from being inside the US but which a lot of people pointed out about the us is that us portion sizes are gigantic in a lot of case and the whole concept that you could like eat one whole meal to a lot of people, especially outside the US is and so if you went to a restaurant outside the US, the concept of having so much food you would need a doggie bag is also a weird concept because the portion sizes aren't nuts like at this wedding that I went to the bride was from the UK and the groom was from the US and you know I did lots of small talk with sort of lots of people, everybody from you and you know you asked her, What do you want to go in Boston. What kind of food you have whatever and everyone was like oh my god your sizes. I was like, I know it's the train just thing. I mean, this way they actually had like a hamburger bar after the wedding and then a full catered sit down dinner. It had like a dinner and then a dinner

Jessamyn: and I told Jim this and he's like oh my god you didn't go to the hamburger bar. I was like

Jessamyn: I eat two meals a day, not two meals every two hours. At any rate, this has a lot of me fights from a lot of different countries, talking about donkey bag etiquette, including people from Canada I think Victoria, um, where there was basically like a food poisoning problem like somebody took something home and it had been sitting at like the danger zone temperature for too long now they don't wet or there's kind of a convention that restaurants, don't do it. Hmm, which I didn't know and I never thought about it. Yeah. Um, and so, yeah, a lot of people from Australia talking about it and a lot of people from different countries and it always makes me really happy because seeing lots of different fights from a lot of different backgrounds and cultures, like I often enjoy those threads. Though most yeah instead of

Jessamyn: arguing with each other. Oh really, I'm really not narrowing it down.

Jessamyn: Hold on. Oh, like the Hamilton

Cortex: tickets thread

Cortex: someone tweet like hey Lynn, you want to look at this. I was like, Oh, please don't please let Lin not look at this.

Jessamyn: It was basically soul on ice

Jessamyn: her

Jessamyn: friends,

Jessamyn: their friend

Jessamyn: or friend her friends

Jessamyn: you know I've been working on my my pronouns her friend

Jessamyn: bought season tickets to him to someplace that one of the tickets was Hamilton and then like predicated on the fact that so when I said she was gonna go to Hamilton, like, Hey, you want to go habits. I'll just buy season tickets and then you can buy your ticket for me. Great, great. And then the friend was like elaborate money calculation your ticket costs 350 and soul on ice was like great whatever I'll pay because friendship, but was like I feel weird about this because my friend also bought a ton of other tickets for $1,000 total and went to a bunch of other what's

Jessamyn: fair

Cortex: and of course without you say I know like that's that's the problem like I'm not to say don't ask it like I hope they got something useful out of it, but like

Jessamyn: there's almost like it's almost

Cortex: never the right question like what's fair is not the question. The question is, should I not go in with this friend in this type of transaction the future. Yes. Thank you and have a question like, you know, like, Well, why you don't answer human relations. I know I know I know the answer. It depends. Yeah,

Jessamyn: cuz I thought it was fascinating. Well, I mean, it's already been solved. I pay for the tickets. So, whatever. Yeah. What I was actually surprised that is how many people in the thread because you know so when I was like I already paid for the tickets. So that's not the issue we're like your friends are like like who ended on behalf of soul on ice that they would be asked to pay for those tickets, which I see the perspective but like it just seemed to me that like mean and my perspective is different. Obviously, and I was a person who commented in the thread, but like it was just interesting that like you kind of almost the person who decided to pay for it. Yeah, by saying

Cortex: you know your friend is a horrible person you

Cortex: got some weird ideas about money which

Cortex: like your failure to react is overtly your friends behaviors. I third party reacting is on you can have that feeling, which is like that's not great. That's not great. Yeah,

Jessamyn: Fred was super strange. Yeah, but I learned a lot about how other people look at money and again because I've got kind of weird things about money. My whole perspective is just to ask. But, you know, then there's people in the thread. We're like people talk about money all the time drive me crazy. And I'm like,

Jessamyn: but funny interesting thread to read but glad that I you know

Jessamyn: I'm not trying to go to the theater with most of these people yep

Cortex: i speaking of multiple cultural takes out a sub

Cortex: that can I ask you a question. Do animals have faces Jasmine What do animals have faces.

Cortex: Okay. There we go. I don't know so long now I really, I really enjoyed this, this was lawless asking after helped me educated debate which translates roughly to a friend of mine insisted on something that I find not so which is always a good start

Cortex: an idiot. Do you agree. Yeah dude do animals have faces. Yes. No. And it turns out the answer may depend somewhat on the specific language you're discussing it like an English we say face when we're talking about an animal's face if you believe animals have faces about a human face someone noted that in Italian, there's two different words will be used for the face of a person or face of an animal. So it's like a face to be human is a different word than yes yeah so like if if there's that common semantic distinction then

Jessamyn: of

Cortex: course you know it's different. But anyway, there's a pile of answers talking both about like a testable English usage and other languages and also just sort of like throwing in like, you know, social theory and and context doesn't have a tick. Yeah, which I mean I'm kind of inclined to agree with, but at the same time I could be argued into identifying the face of a tick if it came anticipation of a new numbers lovers arrival is like, hey,

Jessamyn: this Jumping Spider has a face prove me wrong, you know,

Jessamyn: that's

Cortex: why really does have a face I was asking people at the last xo xo I went to a couple years ago just conversationally you know our ears part of the face

Cortex: and most people say, What the, and once you get that thing a couple said no and then like, you know, I was so happy when some people said no because I really wanted it to be something that had room for discussion and I kind

Jessamyn: of feel like no ish like your characteristics don't include your ears. But, you know, again, like I wouldn't I wouldn't ruin a party.

Jessamyn: I'm shutting this thing down

Jessamyn: there's some people who just like to need to find something to write about

Jessamyn: and I wouldn't fight with somebody about it, but I would be like, I don't really think so. Oh, you do. Okay, great, you know, life's rich pageant. Yeah,

Cortex: no, I yeah I enjoyed I enjoy hearing people's reasoning basically

Cortex: is is what I'm getting out of it. There's something about

Cortex: you know hearing people break down the sort of feelings and the thoughts and the classifications behind the answers like really what I'm interested in because I don't think there is like an answer. Obviously it's like you know yes we're both responses. It produces

Jessamyn: yeah well and you know to me this was basically answered my my field and needs more cowbell which is the first response on the thread are the same like vegetarian used to be nothing with a face people would understand that I'm white East Coast Jewish too. So that's, you know, it's interesting to me that their answer in my answer are so completely kind of the same

Jessamyn: well and if you want to talk about contentious framing. Let's

Jessamyn: talk about why

Jessamyn: you live live music that was my in my back, which I find it a little strange when people use sock puppets and then ask questions that are a little niggly yeah you know what I mean. Well, there's such a thing at this point to like is it a pop

Cortex: is a sock puppets

Cortex: or is it like someone who signed up with, you know, a like I need to get out from this old username or just someone who signed a username in the first place. Trying to refine it and this this is just this person's account at this point like you know there's sketchy going out multiple counts, but they're just regularly using the one that has a reference to the idea of and there's a bunch of accounts like that that are you know so yeah there's always a little bit. I think it makes people hit an extra eyebrow like you're saying like, why are you Why are you using this account. Yeah.

Jessamyn: Well, that is my account. And so this basically starts off. I mean, I'm a little surprised you guys I was I was good. I was gonna bring this up as basically like live music sucks. Am I right, and you know there's a whole bunch of people who were like, No, you are not right. Yeah, they're there, but basically this person feels live music is kind of not great. You have to sit through the bad songs musicians aren't good I don't get it. So please explain to me what you like about it and I and I feel like the question got better under the under the phone. Yeah. No, it's me, but I'm really having a hard time with this. My favorite part is the last four words of the question or a like. But I love theatre because I theater and so I'm kind of like like I can understand not liking any live experience for a number of reasons. Right. But like really theater what you like, but you don't like music. So again, I learned some things about how other people in the world. Yeah, and that's what I thought was really interesting. And so this is I was gonna say a lot of people who really took the question. Seriously. Yeah. And then the OP came back later and was like hey thank you like I wasn't trying to be I really am having a hard time understanding. Yeah,

Cortex: I think it got even better. After that, though, that was that was the thing I liked and that's what kept me around like like you say, once you get below the fold it gets like there's this acknowledgement that like, Hey, I get this is something that other people actually feel differently about rather than just like being another iteration of like so dumb and I hate it. Right. Right. You know, like that I would have next as is the framing, it's not great but there. There were bones there there was some serious bonus inside the question and people took to those. And so if the if the response initially had just been like I was like, nope. Let's scrap. This was like, I'm gonna let it go. I'm gonna let some plagues go by and run with it and it paid off. And I'm happy that that worked out

Jessamyn: because

Jessamyn: that's got my favorite kind of live music thing that I was not a participant in but like when Tom Petty things like the first line of breakdown and then the audience just sings the next you know parts of it together which always gives me chills just as I think it's cool. Also I miss Tom Petty like crazy and I just I was happy that somebody showed up to toss that in the thread because it was a great example. Yep.

Jessamyn: Any other for me when I was gonna, you know, make sure you mentioned the tag saying yeah and I don't know if you guys made any decisions about Google stupid thing, but I know there was a talk about it. Oh, and I wanted to mention the medical card club, because even though, for whatever reason, I can't get it to work for me just I don't know me and my personal problems. It is has been a really cool thing and I'm very excited. Yeah, the card club continues on can just be cool thing if you like the idea of sending people cards.

Jessamyn: It's my birthday. I'm 39. That's good age. Yep. I've

Cortex: gotten and made at least two or three variations on, you know, nice,

Cortex: which I'm enjoying the outright absurdity of like mutating into just like something a stone throw away. We should revisit that whole like 69 nice things sometime because I have like oh I

Jessamyn: don't play pretending it doesn't exist. It's like some dumb boy thing on the internet and I refuse to diplomatically recognize it because it's Matt thing and it's ridiculous it's beneath all of you. Yeah,

Jessamyn: it's stupid but it's it's our stupid.

Jessamyn: You're stupid

Cortex: but it takes or thing. Yeah. Let's talk about that briefly going to Maine had brought up the idea of trying to better handle people misspelling things intakes when when searching and basically said, Hey, can we have it so that

Cortex: but like cat wouldn't find

Cortex: well yeah well cat would find cats cats wouldn't find cat.

Cortex: I am that was like,

Cortex: well, that's the thing right like some of its like dumb little bits of just like what works well it's it's easier to search for cat and find every matching tag that contains the word cat right it's hard to just let me but that was kind of already in place like it's it's really easy to search a list of tags for specific sub string, but then to take a super string and search a list of tags for portions of that gets more complicated right not simple at all yeah and and a lot of this is it's tricky because like some of it can be very computationally demanding, which is a problem because we don't want people bringing me on the site by searching for stuff, but some of it can be done fairly cleanly or if you make some assumptions or simplify things could be done. And so it basically it was a fruitful project like hey how doable. Is this

Jessamyn: and it turns out kind of doable. So from both rolled out a modified version of tags that also includes sort of hand wave Lee matched similar tags and did a really good job at presentation, I felt to me. I always do sorted out to kind of see like these are things I think are the same word. These are things that are similar but not the same word. Yeah,

Cortex: etc. etc. Yeah, they put a nice explanation of the threats sort of breaking down the thinking behind it and what does work and how it works, which is really nice. So yeah, good job Trimble also good job Trimble bringing the site back from

Cortex: hardware failure cascade essentially on Amazon's side is what happened like the other day Friday I guess that was

Cortex: like just got real sluggish for a while and and just sort of stopped not being there at all. And it turns out we had to sort of search around and a little bit of like you know wild goose chase stuff going on until we finally pinned it down and by we I mostly been Trimble here

Cortex: and then got it fixed, which was a little bit of time consuming effort itself because we had to like replace a backup server that the database used and we had to bring the database down and that's a time consuming thing to bring down. It's not time consuming, that it goes very quickly but bringing it back up the database really kind of like loads a lot of stuff into memory and usually sort of doing that piece wise as new threads come along and it just keeps everything. It's like a great big you know flywheel that's turning very fast and, you know, moving a lot of stuff around but as long as it's running smoothly that just sort of keeps happening, day to day minute to minute. Right. Right. But starting it up. He's trying to start up that big heavy wheel. It takes some effort and things run slow and if everybody wants to have access to the wheel while you're trying to spin it up, it gets that much trickier. So, so yeah, we ended up with about six hours of partial or total downtime on Friday well for bull worked on it and got everything

Cortex: back up and in gear and

Cortex: yes they did a fantastic job and I really appreciate that they weren't there to do that, despite being, you know, traveling and busy parenting. So yeah,

Cortex: good job brindle Nice work from ball very happy about that. Also, people want to know if your pet is on Instagram frog posts. The fog excuse me poses a couple

Cortex: showing off their Instagram pets. So if you want some pets go to that thread. If you want to share your pet Instagram go to that thread.

Jessamyn: Oh,

Cortex: the Amazon sanctioned was all thrown a link for the heck

Jessamyn: of Hey, you gotta leave floors on on next door. Yeah. Yeah.

Cortex: No, I think it's okay maybe the chainsaw or something that's hard to say

Cortex: it's certainly making some noise

Jessamyn: but I was like is that my leaf blower chainsaw. Now that's yours. Hey,

Cortex: so the app thing you mentioned, it's not really a policy question or and so much. It was kind of like what to do when people when they're making a post include a Google App link, you know, should we strip those out. Is there a reason to leave them there and the current answers like will probably strip them out if you mentioned to him manually like what go fix it but we don't automatically strip it out right now. Just because we've developed a thing to do that and I don't want to go into the whole like apt description. Again, there's a link in there to an older thread about how medical to users and for some stuff. So if you're curious, I guess. Go read that, but like, yeah, it's more of like a, how do we handle this sort of crafty aspect and the current answer is manually go ahead and tell us when you see it

Cortex: and that's

Cortex: fine

Jessamyn: you know it's nothing good happens that often man and the out of man my song so I got to actually go and do the work to

Jessamyn: change it, not with metal belt or just with yeah

Jessamyn: and just wanted to say rip k many yesterday the very end of December 2017. She was a very active and busy

Cortex: minute filter user longtime recognizable member of the site. Yeah. And so,

Jessamyn: and I'm sad about that and you know posted in the thread because

Jessamyn: she was a person I knew if

Cortex: I can mention a few quick music songs I guess there

Cortex: please do.

Cortex: There is an excellent

Cortex: cover by the coasters band,

Cortex: a couple of pieces of music Craig is a mini boss from the classic NES game Metroid, and so there's some great music in there and then Green Hill, which I'm going to say, I think, is sonic music, because it sure sounds like sonic music to my ear, but I was never a sonic kid so I like pretty sure the green hills zone is what that's from but but I can't swear on it but the crazy part I know for sure and the whole thing sounds really good. So good job to go so

Cortex: I also liked a song by choco cat. You'll be shocked to hear

Cortex: called regime change about

Cortex: a change of Hall monitors in middle school and it's it's a dramatic pop song about this whole situation and it's really fantastic. And you should go listen to it

Cortex: but the one other thing I wanted to mention because I thought was sort of interesting thing like I was like at one process stuff is happening on medical to music user Bluebird wine posted

Cortex: little over a month ago

Cortex: recording saying hey

Cortex: all I call this how do I discover this music I'm making

Jessamyn: and God's good conversation right so here's so here's the song and tell me what this is. Yeah, or help me, help me figure out what this is. Yeah,

Cortex: it's got this sort of like insistence sort of

Cortex: not drone exactly but yeah there's there's this steadiness to it you know that feels very characteristic married to this sort of like bluesy folksy thing and then just the other day yesterday day before they before

Cortex: posted a new recording basic came back and work more on that song. So you've got like these two different versions spanning this conversation. And I think that's super neat

Cortex: ah

Jessamyn: yeah it was even month I'm gonna filter. I think every month is a good month but

Cortex: because they're all good months of different ways. Good work. Meta filtering everybody

Jessamyn: yes sorry the podcast is a little bit late. You know, it happens,

Cortex: but at least it's long so we've got that.

Cortex: I think that's about it for me. And he goes, you want to mention.

Jessamyn: No, no, I just good to talk to you and happy birthday and yeah keep on keepin on. Yeah. Likewise, like

Cortex: also Happy birthday to you. I know, I know,

Cortex: but it's like you know it's the it's the thing although it's like the thing when you're at the gas station and like they're like hey you drive safe, you're like YouTube. No, no. Why did I

Jessamyn: though I did ask and ask your question, sorry. You said anything else but I asked because I have a milestone birthday

Jessamyn: no ideas about it and I'm just busy and every idea seems like it's just going to be

Jessamyn: and I was like you know other people give me some ideas I don't really care. I just want to like hang out with my friends, but I'm not sure how to do that because and so I got some good feedback some good suggestions. Yes, we ended applet turned had a milestone birthday and did it at a fancy library and I couldn't go but I saw the pictures and it looked amazing and I was like, Ah,

Jessamyn: that's something I would like how do I do that and so yeah

Cortex: i think i think you should do hot dogs but have everybody bring the fancies hot dog bacon. Fine.

Jessamyn: Did you see this on Twitter. No, she's

Jessamyn: like no no hot dogs. That's what I what I usually do. My birthday is right around Labor Day, and I'm like, I really come over for hot dogs and beer but like it's kind of a random assortment of people because it's not really a birthday and it's just hot dogs and so I was like hot dogs and beer teach like you can't have hot dogs

Jessamyn: and whatever she doesn't get to pay,

Jessamyn: but did I was kind of like, but

Cortex: you can do is you grow the hot dogs but you take a knife and you cut it into long contiguous spiral and then they curl up like with a steel is that is my favorite kind of hot dog so good. I always do that you could have loved it. You could make it a hot dog carving contest where everybody comes up with their own distinctive pretty grilling slices and then you guys can all beauty contest. The resulting hot dogs. I asked her if I could have fancy sausages. She said, Yeah, sure. Okay.

Jessamyn: Well, I think, I think you can but it's just always weird right you're planning your you're planning your birthday party and your sisters like you can't do that.

Jessamyn: I mean, I think it was just I caught her the weird time you know

Jessamyn: and and her point was, you're better than that. But my point is, I'm not and I look I don't want to let me do my thing. I,

Cortex: it is the difference in our like sibling relationships that like cannot imagine my my sister's having any input whatsoever on what happens on my birthday but well I'm really good friends with my sister, as you probably like, yeah,

Jessamyn: and she she and I, in some ways, because we're siblings and we've really grown up together. We're mostly been friends, the whole time have kind of a little bit like

Jessamyn: you know she completes part of me and vice versa. You know,

Jessamyn: like I help her do certain things that are outside of her wheelhouse. She helps me do certain things that are outside of my wheelhouse. Yeah. And so helping with this was definitely part of her thing but her whole point is like I'm not if I'm involved it

Jessamyn: there will be no

Jessamyn: but I have friends with kids. So I think that's kind of going to be the hot dog which

Jessamyn: kind of makes it easier.

Cortex: Well hey good luck with that. And it's in September. I've got you got some you got some runway left. Yes, but yes

Jessamyn: all right well i think i think it's a podcast. I think that's a good podcast and like I said I'm somewhere was real internet so I'm going to be able to upload this file trying to quick delightful.

Jessamyn: It's good talking to you as always.