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Podcast 140 Transcript, Otter

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A transcript for Episode 140: "We Usually Come Up With A Title" (2018-05-07.

Pronoiac passed the podcast to Otter for an automated transcription.

It's ... not bad!


Unknown Speaker 0:00 A couple of things you

Jessamyn 0:29 well, and I don't know, I don't know if you've been keeping up on like other Internet things, but the learned league right after you joyed had a catastrophic failure.

Cortex 0:40 And I saw Yeah, so no being down, but I didn't catch up on what happened at all.

Jessamyn 0:45 Well, I just got up this morning. I didn't even see it was down, but basically some kind of catastrophic failure at the host, who also didn't have backups

Unknown Speaker 0:54 at all. No.

Jessamyn 0:56 So basically, there's a local backup that Shane is using Shane's Thorsten integrity, and there's

Cortex 1:05 not a real name.

Jessamyn 1:07 Yeah. But his real name is Shane brushfield. Like, he's not like a he's not like a weird creep about, like, never use my name. Yeah, that's real human being. And, you know, like, you're Josh Mullard that you don't

Cortex 1:20 know I just think Thorson. integrities is a funny pseudonym, I enjoyed getting email.

Jessamyn 1:26 Seriously, like, it's, it's a complete Alter Ego, kind of, but so he has a local backup, but there's some stuff they just don't have. Which, like, it's 2018, like, I don't know who his host is, but I would be firing them, you know, or like, you know, shining their name across the, I mean, they've got 20,000 users or 10,000 users or something crazy. So the good news is that everybody's gonna get a new flag if they want one. Which to be honest, I kind of feel like I brought this on myself, because I've been bitching about my flag basically, non stop, since I realized I could never change it. But you know, there's a lot of stuff at the forums is just going to be gone. Like a lot of people stats, I think the stats are pretty well backed up because other people have backups of it, but it's just ah, I can't even imagine you know,

Cortex 2:20 that's, that's crazy.

Jessamyn 2:23 So you guys with your relatively short downtime, I think, basically, you're good. And tell me if I have this correct. It was fumble out of town.

Cortex 2:32 Frugal was out of the country? In fact,

Jessamyn 2:36 picture of symbol in Canada.

Cortex 2:40 Yeah, they're in Canada. visiting family, I think which may be so fribble. By my understanding, when I heard them anyway, is a Canadian living in Austria.

Unknown Speaker 2:53 Oh, okay. I never knew all right. Yeah.

Cortex 2:56 Has a German partner family in Canada that I think originates in Michigan. So there was a whole complicated Canada and the Midwest line of sort of discussion about like, culture shock stuff for Oh, fascinating. Who is, you know, experiencing Canada, I don't know, for the first time necessarily, but like, you know, this used to living in, you know, Germany or Austria. And like, the expense and the spread out NISS, and lack of good transit stuff has all been like a part of like, what we're experienced with this. Yeah. So So fribble, kinda like, has experienced with that and is instead just like, more like, Oh, it is some of the cultural field is different now that I'm back in Canada. But so yeah, there's been, there's been fun running chatter in the Mefi mod slack, about sort of the various cultural adjustments of like, suddenly being in Canada instead of Austria.

Jessamyn 3:53 Well, and I saw a picture of Bumble with Flex. I'm not sure what her username is something about mice or rats. Oh, yeah. And I was like, I have never seen a picture of rainbow before. How nifty

Cortex 4:05 if they really do exist. Yeah, and actually, that worked out timing wise, because it meant they were up to actually work on the I suppose. I suppose. We haven't we haven't said anything problematic in this whole like, last five minutes. And it's topical. So instead of repeating ourselves, we'll just call this a really long cold open. I don't know. That'd be a really long cold open. Welcome. Yeah, that's fine. But this is this is episode 141 40. This is this is a very important episode because it's an it's an episode for every character in a tweet back before they changed. How many characters could be in a tweet?

Unknown Speaker 4:41 That was gonna be my bit, was it, Josh? Wow, that

Cortex 4:45 was great. We've got we had similar instincts. Do you want to do your version? No.

Jessamyn 4:51 Well, well. You know, 140, whatever the number of stuff is getting tiresome, but it was like 140 characters. his job died at 140, which is something Wikipedia sees fit to tell me, which I think is just bizarre. And it's also the number of different kinds of pipe cigar and tobacco ashes that Sherlock Holmes apparently could identify, knew or understood.

Cortex 5:20 I am relieved that that's where that went. Because if someone's on Wikipedia said this is how many types there is with that. There's no way you can be firm on that kind of like, come on. Shut up nerds. But no, Sherlock Holmes said, so it's an acceptable level of okay, well, that's a number you can say. That is what that one fictional character says.

Jessamyn 5:37 The same thing with job right. Like, it's the age that the Bible says Job died at is different than like, Job was this old? And you're like, Yeah, I mean,

Cortex 5:48 well, and then there's also like, you know, the Bible doesn't really say, but we decided to apply our own calendrical metric to it. And we've determined that which is like, you know, the sort of the Spirit that this is exactly how old the young earth is, it started on a Tuesday, you know, right, we made a choice. Whereas the Bible actually says, and then, you know, at age 140, he shuffled off this mortal coil and

Jessamyn 6:07 became one of the reasons I'm actually bad at trivia is because I don't know much about the Bible and cannot be bothered to learn. I don't know why, like, it's a weird, sticky thing with me, you know, like, there's Bible stuff and Shakespeare stuff. And both of those, I just can't do it for so many years. I

Cortex 6:27 mean, it's, I feel like how much don't want to dive into like a literary analysis and cultural analysis of holy books, but but I would put it this way, I would say, you know, as much as a huge cultural influences has turned out to be and as much as it has some interesting, complicated literary things going on with it. If the Bible was not attached to a hugely successful, you know, 2000 year old religion, I don't think it would be high on a lot of book lists, just because things it's a wandering mess, the language contradicts itself. It can't even like, you can't find a narrative through line without like, doing backflips. It's all very, it's raining, you know. So getting excited, just for the hell of it about like, getting super familiar with the details of the Bible seems like, ya know,

Jessamyn 7:15 Shakespeare is a problem too. Like they I did this wedding that was a, you know, kind of a bookish wedding, it was at Boston Public Library. And they had the wedding cake was made of books. Right. And I didn't know the couple that well. So I, you know, ripped a little bit off of the books that were in the wedding cake, because it was a nerd wedding and so great. So it's like The Princess Bride. So I didn't do like the marriage thing, because, but um, you know, talking about yes, there's going to be kissing and whatever, there was Lord of the Rings. I don't really know anything about Lord of the Rings, surprisingly, even though I've seen the movies. But the other thing was like A Midsummer Night's Dream, which, of course, they misspelled on the wedding cake, which I'm just going to die, right. I'm going to die. But I actually don't really know that much about Midsummer Night's Dream, except that I've seen the play and I remember liking it. So then I like went back and like control asked for love. And again, because it's a nerd wedding. I could just say that I did that. And then talk about the things Shakespeare says about love. And I thought it was good, but I was like, Man, how did I get here? Like this age just being like, I don't really know what that has to do with love, but I guess I'll figure it out. You know, Tale of Two Cities never read it. All these books. No idea. So yeah,

Cortex 8:29 I don't I don't know much about Shakespeare. I don't know much about Midsummer Night's Dream, but I do know enough to know that it's a good pick if you want to just make an easy sort of like adolescent joke because of the character name bottom.

Jessamyn 8:41 So you can say Yeah, well and like you know, you don't know that much about it. But you know that mid summer doesn't have a fucking knife. Right?

Cortex 8:51 You know, I don't I would not spell it with a hyphen but I can't say definitively that there might not be a drift in usage at like, like mid hyphen summer is an understandable construction even though I like it's not the title of the plays. Oh, yeah.

Jessamyn 9:07 Yeah, I would never say this out loud to the couple or in any other way. But I was horrified because I am an actual nerd. And I know how it's actually spelled.

Cortex 9:17 Thankfully, we're not posting this recording publicly somewhere to be consumed by anyone who comes across it.

Jessamyn 9:24 I've made sort of no link ability with you know, this actual event Despite telling a couple people I

Cortex 9:30 think I think I think mistakenly inserted hyphen is probably like the best possible case for like a style or usage or spelling error, though. Like it's not like someone spelled summer with one M like, unless that was a really complicated joke about Sumerian itself but you know, like, I don't know, that's, that's an acceptable level of variance in my mind, like worth stretching it out. But at the same time, now, if I did my wedding, I wouldn't dive well. Like you probably would have, you know,

Jessamyn 9:59 I don't Maybe meat only controlled it from the beginning. Exactly.

Cortex 10:03 And this was like writerly people. Right? So you know, maybe maybe it was a collective like editorial in joke. Maybe like, intentionally inserting a small but conspicuous copy editing error into something as simple as actually

Jessamyn 10:17 prefer the there's a joke everyone was in on except for me version of that.

Cortex 10:22 Let's just run with that we've solved it. We've solved the mystery. We've we've freed up time Sherlock can spend instead classifying tobacco. Oh, it's, it's good work all around. We've done it. Nice work.

Jessamyn 10:35 Now I feel better. Thank you. I'm not even gonna talk about that, like one space after periods, although maybe there's a metaphor.

Cortex 10:42 You just saw a thread about that this morning? Because someone flagged some comment in the comment was fine. But I was like, no, no, I don't have time for the podcast. I don't have time before the podcast to dig in on this. Because that you should put two spaces anyway.

Unknown Speaker 10:58 Wait, what? Are you two space?

Cortex 11:01 I believe in the semantic content of the second space, which is, which is an argument point. But it's it's not nothing?

Jessamyn 11:11 Do you double space after?

Cortex 11:12 I do? Yeah. Oh, you just never see it because we only communicate on the web. And

Jessamyn 11:18 we don't talk in sentences ever. Well, but I see you type stuff in the meta filter. And I guess I never noticed,

Cortex 11:24 you would notice on meta filter. I'm not I don't force the issue with you would not notice because by standard practice, possibly by by definition in like whatever, WC three documentation, but but certainly in practice for as long as I've ever noticed, web browsers have collapsed consecutive Oh, marked spaces into single spaces. Yeah, so unless you force the whitespace, it's going to take as many space as you want and collapse down to one. So functionally, I can be both triumphantly righteous about my style preferences. And everybody else who thinks that's a problem gets their way. And that's the important thing, the people who apparently I am just going to this, the people who are upset about two spaces have are basically being sore winners because they are getting their way in

Jessamyn 12:14 every other places to read, you know, sure, but

Cortex 12:17 like, where most of these arguments happening, right? So in the common setting in which someone could play in about people putting two spaces, they never even see the two spaces unless someone goes to extraordinary effort, at which point, it's just a pedantic nerd fight, you know, beyond common usage. And so like, they are getting their way in terms of the presentation. I'm getting my way in terms of having my slot and not so yeah, we've we've all we've all actually come to a nice happy place for for Internet vendors anyway. And if I want to parse writing to distinguish between period terminated abbreviations like doctor and, you know, Mr. and Ms, and whatnot, and actual sentence, terminal punctuation, you know, boom, there's, which is a very, it's a very narrow issue, and there's ways to work around it, but I like it. I like that that's there. And I wish everybody did it because they're wrong if they don't. So, yes. Meta filter, I guess, I guess we were talking about Metafilter. Sort of insofar as I was ranting angrily about a thread I haven't read.

Jessamyn 13:25 Well, I mean, as as one does,

Cortex 13:28 yes, one certainly does. Let's see, I guess. I guess we could talk about stuff.

Jessamyn 13:35 dive right in.

Cortex 13:36 Yeah. What are we doing while we while we leap on in there?

Jessamyn 13:40 I didn't look at jobs. I can tell you that right now. Okay,

Cortex 13:42 well, let's let's let's real time and let's go on out on jobs. I know there were some jobs. I think only one is still open.

Jessamyn 13:50 Yeah, because our last podcast do we even talk about when the last podcast was? A joke show? Yeah. Third, which I thought went well, actually, I hope you liked it.

Unknown Speaker 14:00 Yeah. No. Yeah. And

Jessamyn 14:03 so you know, theoretically, if there was something perfect for Marx, and we wanted to mention we could but otherwise, you know, all of April and Jobs was not super busy.

Cortex 14:13 But there's a few things is security engineering, newsroom Support Engineer. I suppose I could like paste these in so they show up in nothing.

Jessamyn 14:21 Yeah, we have a thing. Yeah.

Cortex 14:25 I feel like we're really we're filing firing on all all chambers cylinders.

Jessamyn 14:31 second weekend, to be honest, I mean, the whole thing like the month kind of snuck up on me I don't know about you. And then I was like doing a wedding. You know? And so I was totally like, No, I can't or and then yesterday, I was coming back from the wedding. And so we're doing it on a Sunday morning afternoon, which is not our normal.

Cortex 14:50 Yeah, I don't know the last time we did a Sunday. But hey, whatever, you know, let's let's just let's let's let our hair down. My hair's long. I have to be down meaningfully at this point. So

Jessamyn 15:03 mine is down because I sleep with it down and I'm not actually out of my pajamas yet.

Cortex 15:07 Yeah. So perfect. Well, hey, there's some stuff on projects. There's a really nice post from Aspen k f, actually. So Dan F, passed away a couple years ago.

Unknown Speaker 15:18 I remember I remember dad and

Cortex 15:19 his daughter got hold of us and ended up signing up for meta filter and talking about Dan a bit in the meta talk obit thread. And she's posted a site collecting a bunch of his music recordings, basically. Online Catalog and archive, which is

Jessamyn 15:41 remember, I remember when she was yeah, when she came around originally. Yeah.

Cortex 15:46 So that's really nice. And yeah, it's a really, really nice, sort of archive and testament to Dan and

Jessamyn 15:55 yeah, and he was really active on meta chat as well as Metafilter, which I think actually maybe where I sort of got to know him, but yes, like the play guitar was a nice dude. We answered some questions. Speaking of music, make ski Park miski Park. We've talked about how to pronounce the Caesars name before Mike Tsai Park, Lakeside punk. clicking through

to his mic. That guy Mike, Mike, who does music stuff, has a podcast for Casey RW. And it's all about like music stories, more information about music stories. It's a episodes and just like weird stories about stuff. And one of them is about Louie Louie. And one of them is about pirate radio station web ad. So if you're somebody who kind of likes that stuff, if you want to know where the shags are now if you want to know about the McDonald's Flexi disc that no one can find. You would probably really enjoy this podcast.

Cortex 16:58 Nice. Well, speaking of podcasts, there's a new podcast from superfluous M and Griffis called the microphone never

Jessamyn 17:07 a picture of Griffis on Instagram talking into a microphone and I was like, I connect. It's like completely erratically. Like we hang out if I'm in New York, and yet a lot of the rest of the time I just see his pictures on Instagram, but occasionally will like email about stuff and I had been meaning to be like Griffis Why are you talking into a microphone? So thanks,

Cortex 17:28 because of news radio because of classic sitcom News Radio. So

Jessamyn 17:35 News Radio? No, no, but oh, they're discussing this. Yeah. Alright. Alright. Alright. He's the elder statesman, that's adorable. But it wasn't very, like, sort of spotty projects might not spotty in the content or the quality but just there wasn't a lot in April. Everybody's doing their taxes. Can I just talk about

Cortex 17:59 Texas? Yes, please.

Jessamyn 18:01 I did six goddam taxes this year or like between me and my sister, we did six taxes.

Cortex 18:06 That's a lot of taxes.

Jessamyn 18:08 Now, one or two too many taxes.

Cortex 18:11 How are we counting a tax here? Like you did?

Jessamyn 18:14 So I did my tax. Okay. I did malt shops tax. Okay. I did my deceased mother's tax. We did the estates tax. My sister did third tax. And then there was one more tax that I can't remember. But it was just a lot of taxes. And you know, I did none of them really, like, you know, I sort of managed people doing taxes. But you know, checks were written over and over again, and other tax. At any rate, I was just so damn happy when they were all finished and everybody was paid, and the government was paid. And you may have been following the fact that like, basically every February Vermont decides to audit me for no damn reason. Because of the weird way my sister and I have structured some of the stuff we own together for months, like you own you owe more money and I'm like, no, no, no, my sister owns that half and she pays Massachusetts. Vermont's. Like prove it. And I was like, No, I proved it last year. They're like, we are inexorable immovable machine prove it again. And last year, I think I finally got through them because this year in February I received no audit.

Cortex 19:23 Yay.

Jessamyn 19:24 Yeah, it is a happy I mean, it's hard to pay taxes under Trump because I hate him but like there are still social programs that receive my money that help things that he hasn't managed to dismantle and especially in Vermont like Texas go to all sorts of good things, but I resent the additional paperwork.

Cortex 19:41 So I wish I can remember

Jessamyn 19:43 the six tax.

Cortex 19:45 I feel like the metal filter and then personal tax stuff all went successfully. Thanks basically entirely to my CPA. Good

Jessamyn 19:56 if he's got a good CPA, my guy seriously I I'm gonna have to move to another country with no taxes if something ever happens to my guy. But yeah, it kind of offensive. He has email. He's mellow. So when I'm like, I'm getting audited. He's like, Yeah, well, it sucks. Let's figure that out instead of being like, Oh my God, if I don't have the receipt for that hamburger you late last year,

Cortex 20:19 right? Yeah, yeah, no, no, it's basically same with mine. He's very chill and friendly. And, and emails, well, and, and whatnot. So well, here's

Jessamyn 20:27 a question about your taxes, right? Because you've got, I mean, is that an expensive hobby, but it's definitely a hobby that costs more than like building moss terrarium, like it because that's kind of, I guess, a potential, like business slash hobby, like is that stuff,

Cortex 20:43 tax, it would take some extra work to really make it work as business expenses and whatnot. So I'm sort of like, I talked about that. And I was like, Well, okay, so this is, this is how we make the difference between basically hobbyist stuff and like, a more legit business structure where expect that you're working artists, and basically, I'm just going to need to spend more time and effort on it before I'm going to care enough for it to be worth the effort. So you know, we'll see maybe one day but for now, no, I just, that is something I do in my spare time.

Jessamyn 21:18 When you got a home office, right? Yeah. Kinda home office.

Cortex 21:22 Anyway, taxes there. And now they

Jessamyn 21:25 have nothing to do with

Cortex 21:26 what stopped. We got past them. And it gets a talk last month. I feel like we're like, let's let's talk about like, let's just let's just talk let's just sign

Jessamyn 21:41 you up for learned League. They had a catastrophic data failure. There was that

Cortex 21:44 so I guess I'm gonna have to upload my my flag again, is basically what your flag looks amazing, by the way. Well, thank you. I, it really was 50% of the motivation there was like, Hey, I gotta I gotta have a red flag. Okay. Like that got me on board. But, but yeah, I'm excited for that. To start. I'm excited to see mefites There's there's a whole friend thing. Do you I wanted to ask you about this. This is this is never learned league beginner podcast.

Jessamyn 22:10 Because I was on the podcast with Matt talking about literally two and that was actually a thing that happened last month.

Cortex 22:15 Yeah. Yeah. Did we talk? Was that was since the last? Yeah, there was a meta talk thread about that. I'll find that. I think we're just gonna freeform. This one. I think we're gonna be jumping all over the place is how I'm feeling. But yeah, you were on a podcast. Matt

Jessamyn 22:30 has a new podcast.

Cortex 22:34 A person named Matt Howie on the internet? Yeah, he has. He has a new podcast where he's talking to people about their hobbies and such. And, and yeah, he interviewed you about your alerted league stuff.

Jessamyn 22:46 Yeah. He wanted to interview me about like, kind of my civic stuff. You know, because I am elected representative. I'm active in my town, really? And I honestly think he kind of couldn't find a hook. Which is fine. Like, I get it, but like, you're kind of either super into civics? Or you're kind of not really. Yeah. And so instead, he was like, well, let's talk about learning league. And I was like, oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah. He's like, Well, you know, I'm on learned league. I was like, god dammit, really. And has been for a year. But he got signed up by like somebody at work, who did a terrible job of telling him how it all works. And what's cool about it, and how you link up with people there and the forums. And so we had a great rambling talk about, you know, what it's like, and why I like it. And the fact that, you know, I was joining us air. I mean, the podcast is really good in general, like, I've listened to some other episodes of it. And, you know, no surprise, Matt does a great job. But it was really fun to sort of talk to him about something that basically have nothing to do with Metafilter. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Cortex 23:48 Well, it's it Yeah, it's, it's such an odd thing. Like we, we between, like, the three of us and other folks involved in mental health, this long, sort of working and collegial and friendly, you know, overlapping of interactions tied up in all this time spent on medical care. So it's still weird for me to stop and sort of decouple those sometimes thinking about, like, you know, talking to you about stuff talking to Matt about stuff, you know, it's it's just such a, it's such a dominant through line on sort of like that, that personal history together. That's like,

Jessamyn 24:24 your kind of day to day like I was trying to explain it this wedding, like, how do I know these other people? I'm like, Well, I don't know that. But we're all kind of like Internet people. And they're like, what does that mean? Internet people. I'm like, I don't know, like, I'm famous on the internet. And I'm just trying to think of it and I'm like, Oh, man filter, like, I ran that for, you know, a while Oh, and then they knew what that was, even though they weren't sort of heavy users. And I was like, Oh, thank god like, otherwise I don't even know what it means.

Cortex 24:53 I was I was having an abbreviated sort of explaining metal filter conversation with someone from Oh, she's one of the one of the manufacturing companies I've talked to in the last week because of that asked me the filter question about the house numbers, which I should just talk about that some because I thought it was gonna help,

Jessamyn 25:11 please, because I came into that story in the middle and I had no idea what.

Cortex 25:17 Yeah, so yeah, like, you've probably seen it as much as anything on Twitter. You me tweeting incessantly about it? So there was this question.

Jessamyn 25:27 Asked me to filter. You

Cortex 25:29 know, I'm trying to think of the date. April 30. What was that like a week ago? No. Last Sunday or Monday, we don't say the day on the dateline. So I have to just because it, it doesn't really matter. On your computer. I'm trying I'm trying to set a tone of uncertainty about timing. That's that's the magic. That's what it is. Monday, okay. Yeah. Monday, user John Gordon posts a question asked about Perl 30 says, What's the typeface used on American street addresses? Specifically, you know, thinking about the last season Twin Peaks is wondering what the distinctive font is used for street dresses, like a couple examples. He pulls out, you know, these, these are similar styling houses, California, other places. I wonder where this started?

Jessamyn 26:15 Because it is kind of a weird, non sarahfey swoopy. Like, they don't just look like any regular. Like, if you were just going to draw a number, they've got a little bit of panache to them in an odd way, if that makes sense.

Cortex 26:29 Yeah. Yeah. It's got a specific sort of look to it. And, and I saw this question. I actually saw this question. I didn't come across it naturally, there was a flag on a comment in it. A, this came up on Twitter. And I have very mixed feelings about this. There was a comment, like, second comment in the thread is Kevin belt saying, well, it's technically in a font, because it's not tight. But those are just standard house numbers you buy at Home Depot with the link

Jessamyn 26:54 to is on metal is on learned lead to by the way? I think he's one of my referrals. Yeah,

Cortex 26:59 a lot, longtime, longtime. If I Yeah. A goodie, this this, this answer got flagged, I think somewhat understandably, as sort of like, well, that's not really answering any of the questions in it. You're just sort of saying you can buy them at Home Depot. But on the other hand,

Jessamyn 27:15 when you say I wonder where this started, and somebody's like, the most popular place to buy house numbers sells them that way.

Cortex 27:22 You know, and that's, that's the thing. So it ends up sort of connecting the Where'd it started to? Where is it now thing because like, if these are popular, they're being sold somewhere. And if they're being sold somewhere, they're being sold by someone. And there's questions to answer following that line of inquiry. And, you know, so I saw this question, I checked out the flag. That's okay. And then I started thinking, I was like, this is whom then I started doing some Googling, thinking like, I'm gonna solve this. And I did not solve

Jessamyn 27:47 that a fun feeling, though it is. I liked that feeling. I do as much of that during my waking hours as possible, and it keeps me completely happy.

Cortex 27:55 See, and I should do it more like this. Part of what I have learned from the last week of obsessing about this question is that, while obsessing for an entire week about a question is probably not workable, I should really try and like, put myself in this position on ask me more often because like, of course, I don't tend to engage with human relations questions very much. They're

Unknown Speaker 28:12 just I mean, why?

Cortex 28:15 I mean, some people really do and like my regular posting them on a regular basis. And

Jessamyn 28:21 I had a question about your brother, maybe for later.

Cortex 28:24 Alright. But anyway, like this sort of thing, I feel like I could dig in on more. And I did dig in on this a bunch. And I ended up like, doing some research and leaving a thing saying, well, here's what I found so far. Which is a few things, I found a few things so far. I think I found where they started with some help from someone who runs the Freres Jones Twitter account, which is their type of company of some sort or design company or something. And they said, hey, you know, I've got a catalog, that might be helpful, I can send you a scan, like in fact, the opposite is like, that'd be great. And the next morning, they scan a couple pages from like, circa 1927 ish.

Jessamyn 29:09 Supply catalog seven is older than that. Well, and

Cortex 29:13 so. So some of these things are just the graveyard one. Yes.

Jessamyn 29:22 Look at that seven. It's very similar to similar seven. Yeah, it's that same swoopy thing.

Cortex 29:27 Yeah, the two is much more sort of filigree but it's also definitely both in the same general feeling as the font we're talking about. And I'll include a link to the font in lots in the question, but I'll include some other stuff, of course, probably too when we post this. But basically, it started. It seems like the earliest manufacturer I can find for this and that doesn't mean it's when people started making it but of course, HW night and son from Seneca Falls, New York was selling them in a catalogue in the mid late 20s and a As Kevin belt said in his answer about the Home Depot link also said, Well, it's not type. So it's not technically a font. But more to the point, I think it's not even if you can be pedantic or not, I don't think my feeling is that this even is like from a specific font or typeface, the impression I get looking at the catalog in 1927, is that there, this was a style, which your grave marker shows like, is not something that was invented by these people. But HW Knight created these metal forms mass cast version, and that may have been when it started being a thing, you know, it may have been them, it may have been someone else like it's, it's one of the things where, like, if you can't find the evidence, that doesn't mean it's not there. But this is the oldest evidence I've been able to find if someone specifically

Jessamyn 30:46 have evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence, or the other way around. Yeah,

Cortex 30:50 but these folks were definitely selling this stuff in the early 20s. Or in the in the 20s.

Jessamyn 30:55 I'm done, Gordon, to be honest, it's probably just kind of curious, not like, oh, please do your PhD thesis. Oh, yeah. No, no, I know definitively. So that seems like a good. We've got this far. That's pretty far.

Cortex 31:07 Yeah. Good. Yeah. So it seems like a likely starting point. Anyway, but but the things are still sold today. And they're not sold today by something that is a logical subsidiary of the original HW night, like, so I've managed to track down like four different corporate narratives, each of which has produced a version of this at some point, some of which still do, some of which did and then don't anymore. And I've got basically the text file equivalent of red string attached to a bunch of photographs that I will run at some point. But the other is Twitter, the Twitter thread I ended up making basically goes into all the real time research and weird dalliances and I currently got a book out about house numbers. That was one book about house numbers, I could find it the library is written a few years ago, and I kind of assumed it was gonna be a book out about house numbers. Yeah, yeah, there's a book called about house numbers. Yes, house numbers, a forgotten history or something like that. I don't have it right. Next mirror, I pull it out. But it's Anton something. It's like 128 pages, and it's got a bunch of pictures in it. And I sort of assumed when I checked it out that it was going to be a bunch of pictures and some fluffy writing, you know, some basically bathroom reader stuff. And instead, it actually opens with what feels like kind of strident libertarian thesis in on the fundamentally, you know, unjust, and like, it's weird. It feels like it's basically taking the position of contempt for the very concept of the state and the house number as fundamentally a tool of surveillance and oppression. Which I think there's, there's interesting argument to be made there, but it's not what I was expecting from this book full of pictures of house numbers.

Unknown Speaker 32:52 Is it a compelling argument?

Cortex 32:54 I, I was sort of cockeyed enough reading it and being surprised that that was even the tone that I feel like I need to go back and read through it again. I feel like it's a little bit sloppily written. It feels a little bit more polemic than like, really staid thesis, you know. So in that sense, it feels a little bit like someone growing on their blog, but in fancy words. I don't know it's weird, and I haven't liked the other 60 pages are sort of texting and I've gotten through the first 20 or so. So I'm kind of curious where it's gonna go but but it's it's interesting, and it's been an interesting twist on this whole research project. But yeah, so I've been I've been excited about that question and I've been paying way too much attention to house numbers and tweeting about it and getting suggestions and feedback from people and bond cliff is complaining that all of his Amazon results are now numbers and fabulous sorry. Took pictures of his apartment building numbers. Yeah, so I'm glad that made him infecting some people with this because I can't not like look at every house I pass now and be like, okay, but is that well now that's which manufacturer? I don't know. Is that new or is that old? It's a whole thing. So anyway, that that has been a good time and I liked that asked me with Ulta Good job John garden for setting my brain on fire apparently.

Jessamyn 34:21 Well, I mean, this is the thing they talk about about library people right like the line I've probably said it before on the podcast is that like librarians like to search everyone else likes to find and so you may have gotten to the point now where you to enjoy. You know, the search it

Unknown Speaker 34:40 really was convinced that she had to do it. She was basking in her power. But when Friday's announcement came on, it was Hold on it would be shows

Jessamyn 35:12 there have been hall monitor for two years, six people put up their hands for me in a vote don't matter. Does anyone just get to be home on? Stacy? She's always been jealous. If that actually that might be an okay lead into a sort of slightly related post by Leb. OA, the one on people who love well. Oh, love things is too much is the title. But basically, it's an article in catapult basically about kind of how do you talk about the things you're super obsessed about, in quote, unquote, polite conversation, and it's written by a woman who has autism, she's autistic. And she basically tried to sort of figure out like, she's a nerd, you know, among nerds. And still, she's like, how much do you talk about the things? Yeah, with other people. And it's, it's just an interesting article, kind of, from the inside out, right? Like I know about my obsessions and how I feel about it. But I also feel like I'm, you know, somewhere in the neurotypical range, I think, I mean, who knows? Right, but I think so. And so, but looking at somebody who's super into whatever the thing is, and figuring out how much to talk about it when you know, you're not neurotypical about these things. It's just a really interesting article and turned into kind of a pretty interesting thread.

Cortex 36:48 Yeah, I experienced that one more from a moderation perspective. Yeah. But yeah, like, Yeah, I thought that the portions of the conversation that I wasn't like, helping manage, I thought were interesting. So it's difficult, right?

Jessamyn 37:00 Because I mean, autism, specifically, because there's so many people who share that characteristic, who are perfectly happy sort of speaking for themselves, you know, as opposed to, like, people who have other kinds of disabilities who may be also can't be quite as communicative about it. You know, you get a whole bunch of people who are like, this is how it feels from the inside of my head. And then you get other people being like, Oh, God, I talked to you at a party once, and it was super whatever. And I don't know, it's interesting to look at that sort of social issue from a whole bunch of different directions. But yes, there were some metal filter people who definitely really couldn't sort of manage that conversation. The way maybe they needed to. Yeah, which was ironic, given the topic of conversation. But it's also really interesting. So I think people should read it and would learn things.

Cortex 38:00 Gosh, what else did I get up to this month with a metal filter? Oh, no. Eyebrows, monkey asked me to tell people thanks for all the good answers and help on her question about Victorian sneaky sex.

Jessamyn 38:15 I love this question. This question was so interesting. So eyebrows McGee is like writing a thing. And she's got two characters who are supposed to have this kind of like, liaison, and they're kind of well off, like, where did they connect to hook up? And it's not like a central part of the story. So it just needs to be kind of, you know, a minor issue, but they can't check in a hotel for reasons. You know, but it's important that they have some place to hook up. All right, Victorian esh. How does this work? And it was, it was super fun. There was a whole bunch of people who had, you know, different ways to kind of work through and around that specific problem. You know, hooking up in a horse drawn carriage Church, the library, get this, I mean, the same places everybody hooks up nowadays, honestly, but I thought it was fun to read. Yeah, I actually didn't comment in a single Metafilter thread for the entire month of April because I was so busy taxing. So there was a whole bunch of stuff, of course that I looked at on metal filter and looked at on AskMe filter. Do you want to start with either one of them?

Cortex 39:30 Let's jump into some metal filter. Okay,

Jessamyn 39:33 so we were talking about that other metal filter. And I really liked this post moveable book lady and I feel like we're on kind of the same wavelength. And this was an article from haka, Hawkeye magazine, about coastal science and coastal societies and basically things that are written on the outside of ships. Oh, big ships that are really only supposed to be a thing that other people like that the boats are supposed to look at. Right? Like it has nothing to do with you and your human eyeballs. But like what? What can you see? And what does it mean? And so there's some beautiful photography. And just I learned a couple things. Yeah, no,

Cortex 40:21 I saw that go by and that's that's on my get back to it list because I really enjoyed the glimpses I saw. It is like a busy day or something's like fucking boat language. That's sweet. I'll get back to it. And like so many things that just sort of wanders off distance.

Jessamyn 40:36 Yeah, but fun thread. Kind of perfect metaphor for posts.

Cortex 40:41 Yeah, that's great. I liked this little post from space burglar about printing techniques, just looking at non press printing techniques, but you know, like wood cuts and linoleum and

Unknown Speaker 40:57 transplant metal filters on wood block. 100 is the first one so cool.

Cortex 41:03 As always super, super pleasant to see and puff up. So yeah, there's not a whole lot to say about it's just like some nice videos of printing techniques and stuff. And if you feel like chillin out that go do it because it's cool.

Jessamyn 41:16 That is nice. Oh, one of the things that I really liked a lot, which I thought was maybe gonna go weird and sideways and did that. I don't think it's it was Molly Ringwald. So like if you were me, and you grew up in the 80s, like the John Hughes movies with Molly Ringwald were basically either what your life was or what you kind of hoped your life might be, you know what I mean? Like they were kind of a typicality that was accessible to sort of outsiders and nerds. And not just like weird Princess stuff are weird, whatever. So those movies were incredibly formative to me. And Molly Ringwald has kind of grown up to be, you know, super interesting lady with daughters of her own. And she talks about looking at the Breakfast Club movies and her relationship with John Hughes who has died. And you know about what that was like. And some of the things she said about the movies at the time, things that change some of the things she did not say at the time. And she looks at him now. And she's like, Oh, God, when she in the age of sort of meets you and everything else. She watches the movies with her teenage daughter, and talks about kind of the things, the conversations they had fascinating, the article itself, fascinating looking at how those movies hold up and 2018 because I kind of thought about it, but I never really thought thought about it. And so it was, and she's very well spoken and interesting person. So it was really interesting as an article like it was probably the best, like long form article that I read from metal filter. This month, and it was interesting. Hearing other people talk about how things were formative or not formative for them if if the movies hit them at, you know, the right time, kind of.

Cortex 43:03 Yeah, yeah, no, it is an interesting sort of collective generational stop and look back, because it does feel like part of it is how much they were not just like, Oh, that was the movie that was popular. But that was like, that was like the social milieu and commentary and Touchstone so much for a lot of people who grew up around that John Hughes era. So like, people look back at Star Wars and like, okay, there's this huge nostalgia for Star Wars and whatnot. But people weren't really sort of modeling their social sensibilities on Star Wars, that same way people might have sort of

Jessamyn 43:36 write and wasn't also reflecting as much of a social sensibility as Yeah, Breakfast Club or whatever. Yeah. So some of the messaging that the movies had, yeah,

Cortex 43:48 like Star Wars doesn't really have the capacity to get in the same kind of retroactive trouble of changing mores looking back because like, Well, yeah, back then we thought lasers were okay. But you know, it's like, yeah, so ya know, it's really interesting. And yeah, she seems pretty great. Also, she's Archie Andrews, his mom on Riverdale.

Jessamyn 44:06 I don't know watch Riverdale, but

Cortex 44:07 the technically that's a spoiler. They tease a lot of absent parents who then turned out to be an actor you recognize when they finally show up on the show, but it's not really. Yeah, plus that show such a goddamn mess. So someone was saying, I saw this on Twitter somewhere recently, someone's saying something about the idea of Riverdale as an exquisite corpse project where each episode is written by someone who's only seen the like immediate preceding episode.

Jessamyn 44:33 Felt like that's what last was about to be perfectly honest. But yeah, I feel like

Cortex 44:37 there may be a similar sort of thing going on there some vague arc of aspirations and then like zero discipline or follow through. And right now she's on it. So there you go. If you want some Molly Ringwald boom. I enjoyed this post. You absolute coat hanger by her degree to girl, which was a post it's just a post of like a funny conversation.

Jessamyn 44:56 The absolute unit. It was it was it No, it

Cortex 45:00 was sort of playing off of that. Okay, there probably was. Yeah, so this is this is only sort of related. This is a Tumblr post conversation on Tumblr, about using various prepended adjectives to say things. So like, yeah, you can make nearly any object into a good insult. If you put you absolute in front of it, for example, you absolute coat hanger. Right? As well you can add Edie to an object and sounds like you were really drunk example, I was absolutely coat hanger last night. And it just sort of goes on from there. It's just funny. It says like Tumblr, a few people on Tumblr riffing on a thing. And then it turns to a meta filter thread of people ripping on a thing, and then people trying to price out some of the inconsistencies or difficulties. And I think the the absolute unit that she does come up somewhere in the context of all that, too, but it's just a fun, yeah,

Jessamyn 45:54 people do talk about that. And then there was a earlier thread on Metafilter, about the absolute unit, which, oh, my God, I have not enjoyed the internet so much as I did during the two or three days. Like it just kind of hit me in the fields. For some reason, I don't know why, you know, it was basically so it was just really wonderful, joyful. It's the Museum of English rural life, texted a picture of a big fat, Ram. And the entire text is looking at this absolute unit. And for whatever reason, it's a black and white photo of a sheep ran. And for whatever reason, it just took the hell off. And the metal filter thread is, you know, the AV news article about the fang. But basically, they've got like a 28 year old social media guy who not only posted this one thing, which whatever, but when it hit in this kind of viral way, was ready for it. And so not only kind of did a whole bunch of very interesting parlaying and bouncing back and forth and enjoying the jokes and whatever. But like, they change the name of the Twitter account from the Museum of rural life to the Museum of absolute units for a couple days, and posted a whole bunch of stuff about their library, which made me lose my mind, because it was so cool. Talking about, like, how they found the picture and what kinds of stuff they have in the library of museum rent rural life, and you know, riffing back and forth with a whole bunch of other people. And the guy who does it, you know, wrote a medium article about, you know, his, I guess they say, Sick Boy, I got to learn the word, which I actually did not know. I mean, I didn't I, whatever, you could figure out what the hell it is. Yeah. But I didn't really know it. And yeah, it was just, it was just so cool. And the guys article for medium is just hilarious and good. And so it was just a thing you could just enjoy. There was nothing wrong with it, to the best of my knowledge. There was no problematic aspects of it. It was just something goofy, takes off, et cetera. And the meta filter sorted I think, was kind of before or after it, because the threads like 19 comments.

Cortex 48:15 Yeah, no, it seems like it could have gotten bigger than it was. I think it just like hit in a weird way. But, but I'm glad it got documented.

That people, people, let's just do my shouting people. There's a new artist drawing the cartoon strip. Nancy, did you see this?

Jessamyn 48:37 No. I mean, I was wondering why people were talking about Nancy all the sudden, yeah, it's because

Cortex 48:40 after many years of the previous artists, a new artist has taken over the strip, and it's someone going through dotnet to Donna Miss Lee by Olivia James. And whoever she is, she's doing a good job. And it's, it's weird because it's like it's both doting li Nancy, and also really clearly being drawn in Britain in the 21st century. Because it's like lots of coming out of the gate with a lot of sort of, like social media and communication jokes. Yeah. But it's been it's been interesting because, like, it's one of those things where, like, yeah, it's a crusty, fusty old strip,

Jessamyn 49:14 but to some extent that got a lot of people were like, that's still a thing.

Cortex 49:18 Yeah, I was like, Wait, Nancy still exists. And it turns out, part of it is Nancy still exists. I mean, these things existed syndication forever, because whatever, it's what people are used to seeing. And going super modern with a writing for Nancy is kind of a weird trick because it's a fusty old strip. And it's been really sort of stagnating for a while. And so giving people what they want by keeping the strip around, but then not giving them they want by writing something fresh and new. So we're like, Hey, is it gonna work out? But in the meantime, the strips are good. They're funny, and they're weird. And Nancy was originally written and drawn by a guy named Ernie Bush Miller back in the early 20th century. And it was like a weird, surreal, absurdist gag strip. back then. And that's what it is now. It's just a gag about, you know, social media now, as much as it's going to be a gag about people having water hosepipe. Right, let's

Jessamyn 50:10 go, right. Well, I don't know about you. But for me, it was kind of a real awakening at the point at which I realized that like people who are sort of illustrators and comic book artists, like they've drawn their own style, but in a lot of cases, they can write or draw in any style. I mean, not everybody, but a lot of people who do comics could just as well take over somebody else's comic, you know, like, they could do peanuts or whatever. And it wouldn't quite be Charles Schultz, but it wouldn't totally not be sure you know, that for a lot of artists. I mean, I think I learned this when I was, you know, reading about Mad Magazine. And so, you know, there'd be certain things that were like, done by a person. But then other things like the covers were done by kind of the random a different person each time. Yeah, and illustrators, and illustration was a lot more flexible than I had ever really thought about. Because as a person who doesn't really draw the just being able to draw my own style would be a big deal, but that dragging someone else's style would be impossible.

Cortex 51:07 Yeah, yeah. No, it's it seems like a whole complicated sub discipline on its own.

Jessamyn 51:13 Yeah. So yes, you absolute I loved it. Yep. A couple other like little kind of library of stuff. Things that I liked from metal filter, include catalysis, BBC sound effects, free to download sound effects from the BBC. 16,000 of them lots of interesting, weird stuff. Go check, though, make some ringtones. And then this post by Kyousuke, which is a guy's YouTube channel that just has a lot of old timey film on it, and kind of old black and white footage of lots of different random stuff. That's kind of really fun to click around on.

Cortex 51:59 Yeah, no, I totally didn't see that. Yeah.

Jessamyn 52:03 Yeah, I thought so.

Cortex 52:07 I dug a couple other things. And then we move on to ask I, I liked this write up, fearful symmetry posted an article about sort of developments in a blue pigment and the fella who discovered it looking for a read. And it sort of the article is a good read, because the stuff going on. So this guy discovered this blue several years ago, I want to say like 2009 or something. And has been sort of like going through development stuff with it. Since then. People who want to use you know, pigments for industrial and commercial color processes want to be real sure about like how well it stands up for one thing. So there's been, it's one of the things where you actually have to spend years testing something to really definitively establish how it's going to be behave over time. I guess part of it is just the time aspect. Yeah, you can accelerate some of that, to some extent, by changing conditions, but you really have to stress test it. Because if you're gonna paint something on the assumption that's gonna stay nice and vibrant for 30 years, you aren't gonna say, Oh, well, we've had it for a week. And it sounds good. So let's just run with it, you know, but the article talks about, like looking for a safe, stable, cheap, red, two, because reds are also kind of tricky. And there's plenty ones out there. But

Jessamyn 53:26 that's, you're always the ones that fade off of the bumper stickers. Right? Yeah. A lot of times for whatever reason.

Cortex 53:34 Yeah. So like lightfastness fastness and durability, under strong lighting conditions is like a big aspect of color. Like, there's a lot of really vibrant colors that are vibrant, as long as like, you know, you just deployed them and don't expose them to the world. Well, but that doesn't want to

Jessamyn 53:49 keep them in a box. So yeah, like, that's the thing. If you're putting it in a magazine, it's totally different than if you're painting it on the side of a storage tank.

Cortex 53:56 Yeah, yeah. And if you go and look at like, you know, shops, like I always think of like hair salons with old posters, like they put up a poster like 510 years ago, and the window of you know, some hairstyle or you know, someone's selling glasses or something, and you walk by it. And today, it's just like, it's nothing but blue. It's like blue and white, and it's totally faded. That's because the lightfastness of that blue ink is a whole lot better than the lightfastness of whatever the, you know, yellow and readings were they just didn't stand up to that, you know, radiation essentially over time from all the sunlight. Right. And so yeah, there are reds that are very, very lightfast. Iron oxide is sort of like a classic and it holds up really well. But it's not a big, bright, vibrant cherry red, you know, it's more of an earthy, Rusty, sort of red. So people want, they want everything, they want it to be bright, they want it to be cheap. They want it to be light fast, they want it to be non toxic. And it's it's partly sort of about the idea of like, well, maybe the process we use to generate this blue can generate that red if we look in the right place because it generated other colors based on that same formulation But they haven't got the read yet. So it's sort of talking about that. That's a nice read

Jessamyn 55:04 a work in process. Yeah, work in progress.

Cortex 55:07 There was also a big discussion on Metafilter, about a much bigger discussion on and around Stack Overflow and

Jessamyn 55:15 meta filter, but I was very following it on the larger internet. Yeah, I'm

Cortex 55:19 curious to see where it goes. And I left some longish comments on it, because you would be surprised to hear I have thoughts about like moderation and online communities and whatnot. But, yeah, it's a couple 100 comments, a discussion on meta filter, sort of about people's experiences with Stack Overflow, and what does work and what doesn't. And it's got that inevitable sort of tension to it of, you know, in total in the thread, you have a big mix of people with a variety of levels of experience with Stack Overflow, and a variety of experiences. And it's a mix of people who like us Stack Overflow a lot and actually identify as you know, sort of stack overflow is one of their homes on the internet. And there's people who

Jessamyn 55:56 read it a lot that people are like, I'm Reddit identified, versus I've used Reddit, and I can tell you the mechanics.

Cortex 56:01 Yeah, so that whole spectrum is there. And people have various experiences. And in this context, a lot of people are sort of talking critically about things they don't like about StackOverflow their culture or their experiences, but then you inevitably gets sort of like this. People who identify strongly with StackOverflow were like, Hey, why are people being so mean about this, and people who were like trying to fire? Yeah, and so it's complicated the way you would expect, you know, there's a variety of stuff and mostly a bunch of good discussion and a little bit hotheadedness popping up here or there. But, but it's a pretty good read, as it's a much better read than basically every thread I've seen on StackOverflow about it, which has been really kind of dispiriting, because there's a lot of you can understand the dynamic of defensiveness coming up there. Like the same way, like if someone's talking critically about Metafilter, and that comes up in metadata, there's gonna be people being defensive about metadata, you know, I, I've certainly been that person to some extent, you know, with varying levels of justification, but so like the dynamics understandable, but it's really kind of disconcerting, having seen things get more thoughtful and more sort of nuanced, and how metal filter as a community tends to deal with these subjects, read Stack Overflows, community kind of basically saying, well, there's not a problem in any way. If there's a problem. You didn't frame it, right. Anyway, even

Jessamyn 57:18 person and you shouldn't be here any. Yeah. And the actual problem

Cortex 57:21 is this. And what do you mean? Like I know, a guy who is a person of color on the site. So clearly, it's welcoming to people of color. I mean, we're all familiar with basically every every way you can kind of expect it to go has shown up as

Jessamyn 57:36 well. And that's why I apprec. I appreciated that Jay Hanlon wrote like a really long bit about it. It's like, actually, if our website's full of assholes, it's our fault. Yeah, you know, talks about that, and like what they needed to do as a company, because they couldn't make each individual person do a thing.

Cortex 57:54 Yeah. And Joel Spolsky. And Jeff Atwood, both have posted on their blogs about related stuff recently.

Jessamyn 58:01 Oh, man, I started out with getting into it with Anil over Twitter. I like normally, if you would just said like Atwood and Anil are fighting who is right, like I would have an opinion without even reading what they said. And this conversation that I saw went a different direction. And I was surprised. Yeah, like without getting too into it, because it doesn't matter. Like they were on different sides of this in a way that surprised me. Well, yeah. Expect them to be on different sides. I was surprised to see some of what both of them said,

Cortex 58:35 Well, Neil show up at the meta filter thread to say, well, here's some thoughts from my perspective, as you know, full disclosure of a board member and and some people are like, Well, yeah, but that's that's kind of not what I was sort of hoping slash expecting to hear from you on that because this and whatnot. Right? So yeah,

Jessamyn 58:51 I can see it. And I think also like, you know, Anil, because he runs a big tech company to has a very particular perspective on like, what's possible, what's practical, what StackOverflow is trying to do, and also it's super interesting with him because he's still like an old school dude in tech, despite the fact that I don't think he's, you know, part of bro culture at all. Yeah. He's friends with those guys, and doesn't always have the perspective on it. I would expect you know what I mean?

Cortex 59:22 Yeah, yeah. No, it's it's it's the texture that brings to sort of like the dynamics of the kind of conversation is is interesting.

Jessamyn 59:30 Yeah, and I don't know Jeff out with that much. He sent me a yo yo in the mail recently, though, so that was nice. But I kind of expected that would to be a little bit like he was a little surprised how Neil was and just you know, apropos of nothing. Hanlon posted this also on the medium and I actually posted a response. Not a long one, but short one. Just because I just finished up teaching my community engagement class at the University of Hawaii. And it was all about teaching people how to engage with community He's mostly in real life, not online. But we had assignments to interact with online communities, I made them like do an edit on Wikipedia for one lib, one ref. And I made them get an account at Stack Exchange, and interact with one of the communities there. And I understand the Stack Overflow Stack Exchange line is confusing to you know, like Stack Exchange is a platform stack overflow is one specific instance of that platform, the arguably the most important or not important, but like most,

Cortex 1:00:27 like the touchstone, yeah,

Jessamyn 1:00:29 and so I had my students interact there, and like out of 14 students, 11 of them hated it. You know what I mean. And the two that didn't, were people who had niche expertise, like one of them was like a fish, you know, aquarium fish expert, and found her aquarium fish people that she was really stoked about it. And one of them was like a comic book nerd guy. And everyone else was like, wow, those people were rooting for stuff and like, whatever, you know, some of it's just hey, you throw people into the deep end, and it's not a pleasant experience, no matter what. But some of it was like to a person, they could identify pretty easily, that it's not a place for noobs for a number of reasons, even though I think there's a lot of things that are baked into the platform that shouldn't be making it more like that. So I think the interesting part of that conversation is you tried to bake in so much positive engagement stuff. Oh, my God, it's still not working. You know, like, what is it about your community? That means that even those things don't kind of fix it? Yeah. And, and, you know, part of it is they're just a little bit more hands off. And I mean, you know, metal filter is high touch, right, like I always say, and, you know, Stack Overflow is very much not.

Cortex 1:01:46 Yeah, and, I mean, it was intentionally designed to be sort of like, you know, sort of tool and toolset driven rather than, Oh, driven, which, you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:01:56 yeah. That's how you get what

Cortex 1:01:58 you got, you know, especially at scale. That's part of it. It was intended

Jessamyn 1:02:01 to have scalability to a level that, you know, benefits or doesn't it? But yeah, I found that whole thing. Fascinating, but I hadn't read this thread. So I'll go

Cortex 1:02:10 back I think I think it's worth the read. And it's recent, actually, it's just yeah, from like a week ago, which is interesting, because didn't

Unknown Speaker 1:02:17 that all happen longer ago than the post

Cortex 1:02:21 from Jay I think was basically contemporary. there so

Jessamyn 1:02:25 yeah, I've had some time compression

Cortex 1:02:29 what time feeling weird lately I don't

Unknown Speaker 1:02:34 mean my inelegant strange time in his eyes, and he didn't know where you are deep in your chest and then going to take you from New York

Cortex 1:03:04 you want to talk about some ASP Metafilter?

Jessamyn 1:03:06 I would like to, um, there were a lot of kind of survey questions that I enjoyed starting with slightly earlier in the month. What is this stuff in the toilet?

Cortex 1:03:19 Did not see this one.

Jessamyn 1:03:21 Wow, it didn't really go the way you thought. But basically, you know, you go into a public restroom, especially like a ladies room. So you're using like a toilet, not a urinal? Why is there like this weird shredded paper clump in it? By the way, here's a picture. And, you know, people sort of talk about like, why is, you know, how do people use public restrooms, you know, they make these weird ass gasket things. You know, they have often they have like toilet paper that's supposed to disintegrate, but doesn't flush mechanisms work differently, blah. So it wasn't a very long thread. But it was kind of interesting. And I was like, Hey, I know the answer to this one. Because I spent a lot of time in public restrooms. And it was pretty interesting.

Cortex 1:04:04 Yeah, that's great. I thought this was interesting. There's a question from 100 jars of sky. Asking about the practice of giving your parents and allowance and what that takes. And this is specifically, and I'm glad it worked out that way. Basically, say, Hey, here's a very specific sort of, like, Chinese cultural thing. Can I get answers from people with that experience? And the thread did not fill up with like, well, as a person born and raised in Michigan to you know, like Methodist, you know, parents, I've never heard of this, you know, it's like, people actually read the question and didn't answer if they didn't have anything to answer basically, which is great. And I yeah, this whole thing, like, unfamiliar to me, I hadn't been exposed to that practice at all. So it was interesting to learn about

Jessamyn 1:04:59 Yeah, Oh, no, I didn't know about it either. I found it interesting. And you know, because I've just got my sort of, again, my sort of New England Caucasian upbringing. And I have very specific ideas about sort of my cultures practice towards money and your parents. Like, it's not just like, oh, I never thought about it. It's like, No, I've seriously thought about it. And we're like, it was always like a thing with my mother, like, who would pay for lunch kind of thing. And it and it changed according to some very specific milestones, you know. And so it was fascinating reading, you know, slightly different culture, versions of expectations, because I understand the expectations and sort of how we did or did not line up with them. And then this is different. Yep. I enjoyed it. I also enjoyed sort of this survey question by Queen City, about like, alright, doggie bags. And I feel like we've seen this before, probably, although.

Cortex 1:06:09 I mean, I can transfer to like, come into, like, ending up asking a question related to this, but

Jessamyn 1:06:18 I feel like I've seen it before, but I didn't find it with the obvious tags. And now that we've got like, similar tags search, which oh my god, am I so happy about that? Symbol? You are amazing. Yeah, so basically, like, you know, you go to a restaurant, eat some food, you got some leftover? You take it home, yes or no? Is that considered gauche? Is that even a thing you can do? Why or why not? Bla, and like one of the things that's really interesting about this, which I don't think about from being inside the US, but which a lot of people pointed out about the US is that US portion sizes are gigantic, in a lot of cases. Yeah. And the whole concept that you could like eat one whole meal to a lot of people, especially outside the US is bonkers. And so if you went to a restaurant outside the US the concept of having so much food you would need a doggie bag is also a weirder concept because the portion sizes aren't nuts, like at this wedding that I went to the bride was from the UK and the groom was from the US. And you know, I did lots of small talk with sort of lots of people and everybody from you. And you know, you asked like, Oh, what do you wear to go in Boston in Boston, what kind of food you have whatever. And to a person everyone was like, and my god your portion sizes, I was like, I know, it's the strangest damn thing. I mean, this wedding actually had like a hamburger bar after the wedding. And then a full catered sit down dinner. It had like a dinner and then a dinner. And I told Jim, this and he's like, Oh, my God, you didn't go to the hamburger bar. I was like, I was having dinner in 35 minutes.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:53 That's two meals.

Jessamyn 1:07:54 I eat two meals a day, not two meals every two hours. At any rate, this thread has a lot of mefites from a lot of different countries. Talking about donkey gigantic and including some people from Canada, I think it's Victoria, where there was basically like a food poisoning problem. Like somebody took something home and it had been sitting at like the danger zone temperature for too long. So now, they don't let or there's kind of a convention that restaurants don't do it. Which I didn't know and I never thought about it. Yeah. And so yeah, a lot of people from Australia talking about it, and a lot of people from different countries, and it always makes me really happy because seeing lots of different meat bites from a lot of different backgrounds in the culture. It's like I often enjoy those threads, though most Yeah, instead of a thread where everybody was arguing with each other. I'm really not narrowing it down. Hold on. Oh, like the Hamilton tickets thread.

Cortex 1:08:59 I saw someone tweet like, hey, Lynn, you want to look at this. I was like, Oh, please don't please let Lynn not look at this.

Jessamyn 1:09:05 It was basically soul on ice. Her his friends. Their friend, their friend, her friend. When I tried you know, I've been working on my my pronouns. Her friend bought season tickets to him to some place that one of the tickets was Hamilton. And then like predicated on the fact that Solon ice had said she was gonna go to Hamilton like, Hey, you want to go to Hamilton? I'll just buy season tickets and then you can buy your ticket for me great, great. And then the friend was like so elaborate money calculation. Your ticket costs 350 And Solon ice was like great, whatever I'll pay because friendship, but was like I feel weird about this because my friend also bought a ton of other tickets for $1,000 total, and went to a bunch of other shows what's fair and of course without I've heard you say,

Cortex 1:10:01 I know like that's that's the problem like not to say don't ask it like, I hope they got something useful out of it. But like, there's almost like, it's almost never the right question like, what's fair is not the question. The question is, should I not go in with this friend in this type of transaction? The future? Yes. Thank you and have a question like, you know, it's like, well, you

Jessamyn 1:10:20 learn why you don't answer human relations? No, I know. I know. The answer. It depends. makes you itch. Yeah. Because I thought it was fascinating. Well, I mean, it's already been solved. I paid for the tickets. So whatever. Yeah. What I was actually surprised that is how many people in the thread because, you know, Solon ice was like, I already paid for the tickets. So that's not the issue. We're like, your friends a bitch. Like, like, who were like, offended on behalf of soul on ice that they would be asked to pay for those tickets. Yeah, which I see the perspective. But like, it just seemed to me that like, I mean, and my perspective is different, obviously. And I was a person who commented in the thread, but like, it was just interesting that like, you kind of almost insult the person who decided to pay for it. Yeah. By saying, you know, your friend is a horrible person. Got some weird ideas about money? Which

Cortex 1:11:17 Yeah, like your failure to react is overtly your friends behaviors. I third party reacting is on you, you know, you can have that feeling, which is like, that's not great. That's not great.

Jessamyn 1:11:28 Yeah, that was super strange. But I learned a lot about how other people look at money. And again, because I've got kind of weird things about money. My whole perspective is just to ask, but you know, then there's people in the thread who were like, people talk about money all the time. drive me crazy. And I'm like, you get this but funny, interesting thread to read, but glad that I, you know, I'm not trying to go to the theater with most of these people.

Cortex 1:11:56 Yep. I speaking of multiple cultural takes on it, subject. Oh, I love this that. Can I ask you a question? Do animals have faces Dressman? What do animals have faces? Well, sure. Okay. There we go. I don't know why this thread was so long. No, I really, I really enjoyed this. This was lawless. Asking after Paisley helped me adjudicated debate, which translates roughly to a friend of mine insisted on something that I find nutso which is always a good start.

Jessamyn 1:12:29 My friend is an idiot. Do you agree? Yeah.

Cortex 1:12:31 Do animals have faces? Yes. No. And it turns out the answer may depend somewhat on the specific language you're discussing it like in English, we say face when we're talking about an animal's face. If you believe animals have faces about a human face, someone noted that in Italian, there's two different words that we use for the face of a person or a face of an animal. So it's like a face of a human is a different word. Yes. Yeah. So like, if there's that common semantic distinction, then of course, you know, it's different but anyway, there's a pile of answers talking both about like a testable English usage and other languages and also just sort of like throwing in like, you know, social theory and

Jessamyn 1:13:12 context doesn't have a face a tick has a head.

Cortex 1:13:15 Yeah. Which I mean, I'm kind of inclined to agree with but at the same time, I could be argued into identifying the face of a tick if it came in

Jessamyn 1:13:22 anticipation of a new lovers lovers arrival, but is like, hey, this jumping spider has a face prove me wrong. You know, that's fine. It really does have a face.

Cortex 1:13:33 I was asking people at the last XOXO I went to a couple years ago. Just conversationally, you know, our ears part of the face. And most people said, yeah, what the fuck? And once we get that thing, a couple people said no, and then like, you know, I was so happy when some people said no, because I really wanted it to be something that had room for discussion. And I kind of feel like no ish, like,

Jessamyn 1:13:59 facial characteristics. Don't include your ear. Yeah. But you know, again, like I wouldn't, I wouldn't ruin a party.

Cortex 1:14:08 I'm shutting this thing down.

Jessamyn 1:14:11 Like there's some people who just like to need to find something to fight about. And I wouldn't fight with somebody about it, but I would be like, Oh, no, I don't really think so. Oh, you do? Okay, great. You know, life's rich pageant.

Cortex 1:14:22 Yeah, no, I enjoy I enjoy hearing people's reasoning basically. Is what I'm getting out of it. There's something about the you know, hearing people break down the sort of feelings and the thoughts and the classifications behind the answers like really what I'm interested in because I don't think there is like an answer obviously it's like you know, yes or no, we're both responses it produces Yeah,

Jessamyn 1:14:48 well and you know, to me this animals have faces so it was basically answered my my fields and needs more cowbell, which is the first response on the threat are the same, like vegetarian used to be Nothing with a face, people would understand that I'm white East Coast Jewish too. So that's, you know, it's interesting to me that their answer and my answer are so completely kind of the same. Well, and if you want to talk about contentious framing, let's talk about why the hell you live live music that was sebec which I always find it a little strange when people use sock puppets and then ask questions that are a little niggly. You know what I mean? Well,

Cortex 1:15:34 there's there's such a thing at this point to like, is it a Pop's? Is a sock puppet? Or is it like someone who just signed up with, you know, a, like, I need to get out from this old username or just someone who signs a username in the first place trying to riff on it. And in this case, like, this is just this person's account at this point, like, you know, there's nothing sketchy going on with multiple counts, but they're just regular using the one that has a reference to the idea of, and there's a bunch of accounts like that that are. So yeah, it's always a little weird. And I think it makes people hitch an extra eyebrow. Like you're saying, like, why are you? Why are you using this account? As being possible? Tell them like, Yeah, well, that is my account.

Jessamyn 1:16:14 And so this basically starts off. I mean, I'm a little surprised you guys,

Cortex 1:16:18 I was this, I was gonna see I was gonna bring this up as this.

Jessamyn 1:16:21 Basically, like, live music sucks. Am I right? And, you know, there's a whole bunch of people who were like, No, you are not right. Like they're there. But basically, this person feels live music is kind of not great. You have to sit through the bad songs. Musicians aren't good. I don't get it. So please explain to me what you like about it. And I feel like the question got better under the under the fold? Yeah, no, it's me. But I'm really having a hard time with this. And then my favorite part is the last four words of the question are like, but I love theater, because I hate theater. And so I'm kind of like, what, like, I can understand not liking any live experience for a number of reasons. Right? But like, really, theater is what you like, but you don't like music? What? So? Again, I learned some things about how other people experience the world. Yeah.

Cortex 1:17:20 And that's what I thought was really interesting. And so I was gonna say,

Jessamyn 1:17:23 a lot of people who really took the question seriously. Yeah. And then the OP came back later and was like, Hey, thank you. Like, I wasn't trying to be shitty. I really am having a hard time understanding that. Yeah. And I think it got even better after that,

Cortex 1:17:38 though. That was the thing I liked. And that's what kept me around. Like, like you say, once you get below the fold, it gets, like, there's this acknowledgment that like, Hey, I get this, this is something that other people actually feel differently about, rather than just like being another iteration of like, It's so dumb, and I hate it. Right, you know, like, that I would have next as is the framing is not great. But there, there were bones there, there was some serious bones inside the question and people took to those and so if the if the response initially had just been like, shitty, I was like, nope, let's scrap this was like, I'm gonna let it go. I'm gonna let some flakes go by and run with it. And it paid off and I'm happy that that worked out. Cuz it was really interesting comment

Jessamyn 1:18:15 that's got my favorite kind of live music thing that I was not a participant in, but like, when Tom Petty things like the first line of breakdown, and then the audience just sings the next, you know, parts of it together, which always gives me chills just because I think it's so cool. Also, I miss Tom Petty, like crazy. And I just, I was happy that somebody showed up. to toss that in a thread, because it was a great example.

Cortex 1:18:41 Yep. And the other

Jessamyn 1:18:46 for me with AskMe Metafilter. I was gonna you know, make sure you mentioned the tag thing. Yeah. And I don't know if you guys made any decisions about Google stupid, anthing, but I know there was a talk about it. Oh, I wanted to mention the medical record club. Because even though for whatever reason, I can't get it to work for me just because I don't know. Me and my personal problems. It is has been a really cool thing. And I'm very excited. But

Cortex 1:19:12 yeah, the card club can do design can just be a cool thing. If you like the idea of sending people cards. My birthday, I'm 39 cash.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:22 That's good age. Yep.

Cortex 1:19:23 I've gotten and made at least two or three variations on you know, nice. Which I'm enjoying the outright absurdity of like it mutating into just like something a stone's throw away. We should revisit that whole like 69 Nice thing sometime because I have like, Oh,

Jessamyn 1:19:39 I've been totally pretending it doesn't exist. It's like some dumb boy thing on the internet and I refuse to diplomatically recognize it because it's Matt's thing and it's ridiculous. It's beneath all of you.

Cortex 1:19:51 Yeah, it's stupid, but it's our stupid.

Jessamyn 1:19:54 It's your stupid.

Cortex 1:19:55 Let's just put it that way. The tasers thing. Yeah, let's talk about that briefly. Going to Maine had brought up the idea of trying to better handle people misspelling things in tags when when searching and basically said hey, can we have its own? It does count.

Jessamyn 1:20:13 But like cat wouldn't find cats.

Cortex 1:20:15 Well, yeah, that's well cat would find cats cats wouldn't find cat memes that? Well, that's the thing, right? Like some of its like dumb little bits of just like what works? Well, it's it's easier to search for cat and find every matching tag that contains the word cat. Right? But it's harder. I mean, but and that was kind of already in place. Like it's really easy to search, a list of tags for a specific substring. But then to take a super string and search a list of tags for portions of that gets more complicated, right is not simple at all. Yeah, and a lot of this is, it's tricky, because like some of them can be very computationally demanding, which is a problem because we don't want people bringing me on the site by searching for stuff. But some of it can be done fairly cleanly. Or if you make some assumptions or simplify things can be done. And so basically, it was a simple project, like, hey, how doable is this? And it turns out, kind of doable. So fumbles rolled out a modified version of tag search that also includes sort of hand wavy matched similar tags, and

Jessamyn 1:21:20 I'm printable did a really good job at presentation I felt to they always do because it's sorted out. So you can kind of see like, these are things I think are the same word. These are things that are similar, but not the same word. Yeah, et cetera, et cetera.

Cortex 1:21:33 Yeah, they put a nice explanation to the threads sort of breaking down the thinking behind it, and what does work and how it works, which is really nice. So yeah, good job. Brimble. Also, good job simple, bringing the site back from a hardware failure. Cascade, essentially, on Amazon's site is what happened like the other day Friday, I guess that was site just got real sluggish for a while, and then just sort of stopped not being there at all. And it turns out, we had to sort of search around and it's a little bit of like, you know, wild goose chase stuff going on until we finally pinned it down. And by we had mostly been fumble here. And then got it fixed, which was a little bit of time consuming effort itself, because we had to like replace a backup server that the database used, and we had to bring the database down. And that's a time consuming thing to do, we'll bring it down, it's not taking that to mean that it goes very quickly. But bringing it back up, the database really kind of like loads a lot of stuff into memory. And usually it's sort of doing that piece wise as new threads come along, and it just keeps everything. It's like a great big, you know, flywheel that's turning very fast and moving a lot of stuff around. But as long as it's running smoothly, that just sort of keeps happening day to day, minute to minute. Right, but starting it up, if he's trying to start up that big, heavy wheel, it takes some effort and things run slow. And if everybody wants to have access to the wheel while you're trying to split it up, it gets that much trickier. So So yeah, we ended up with about six hours of partial or total downtime on Friday, Welford bull, worked on it and got everything back up and in gear. And yes, they did a fantastic job. And I really appreciate that they were there to do that despite being traveling and busy parenting so yeah, good job.

Jessamyn 1:23:25 Nice work from all very happy about that. Also, people want

Cortex 1:23:29 to know if your pet is on Instagram. Solution frog post this solution fog, excuse me post as a couple.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:36 I missed this entirely

Cortex 1:23:38 on their Instagram pets. So if you want some pets go to that thread. If you want to share your pet Instagram, go to that thread.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:47 Oh,

Cortex 1:23:49 the thing sanctioned was all thrown a link for the heck

Jessamyn 1:23:55 of Hey, you gotta leave flowers on on next door?

Cortex 1:23:57 Yeah, no, I think it's like a, maybe even a chainsaw or something. It's hard to say. It's a it's certainly making some noise.

Jessamyn 1:24:06 A little bit, but I was like, Is that my leaf blower chainsaw? No, but it's yours. Hey,

Cortex 1:24:11 so the app thing you mentioned, it's not really a policy question on our end so much. It was kind of like what to do when people when they're making a post include a Google App link, you know, should we strip those out? Is there a reason to leave them there? And the current answer is like, we'll probably strip them out. If you mentioned to him manually, like we'll go fix it. But we don't automatically strip it out right now, just because we haven't developed a thing to do that. And I don't want to go into the whole like app description. Again, there's a link in there to an older thread about how Metafilter uses and for some stuff. So if you're curious, I guess go read that. But But yeah, it's more of like a how do we handle this sort of crufty aspect? And the current answer is manually go ahead and tell us when you see it. And that's about

Jessamyn 1:24:53 it. I think that's fine. You know, it's not like it happens that often man and just look at me on my phone now so I got to actually go And then do the work to change it not with Metafilter. Just with. Yeah. And just wanted to say rip Kameny yesterday at the very end of December 2017. She was a very active and busy Metafilter user,

Cortex 1:25:15 longtime recognizable member of the site.

Jessamyn 1:25:17 Yeah. And so I'm sad about that. And, you know, posted in the thread because she was a person I do.

Cortex 1:25:27 I can mention a few quick music's songs, I guess, there.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:34 Please do.

Cortex 1:25:36 There is an excellent cover by the gosto is band of a couple of pieces of music. Kraid is a mini boss from the classic NES game, Metroid. And so there's some great music in there. And then Green Hill, which I'm going to say, I think, is Sonic music because it sure sounds like Sonic music to my ear. But I was never a sonic kid. So I like pretty sure that Green Hill Zone is what that's from. But, but I can't swear on it. But the Kraid part, I know for sure. And the whole thing sounds really good. So good job to go. So I also liked a song by choco cat you will be shocked to hear called regime change about a change of hall monitors in middle school, and it's a dramatic pop song about this whole situation and it's really fantastic. And you should go listen to it. But the one other thing I wanted to mention because I thought was sort of interesting thing like I always like it when process stuff is happening on Metafilter music user bluebird wine posted a little over a month ago recording saying hey, I call this how do I describe this music? I'm I'm making and gots good conversation.

Jessamyn 1:27:07 So here's so here's a song and tell me what this is. Yeah, or help me help me figure out what this is.

Cortex 1:27:12 Yeah, and it's got this sort of, like, insistence, sort of. Not drone. Exactly. But, you know, there's, there's this steadiness to it, you know, that feels very characteristic married to this sort of like, bluesy folksy thing. And then, just the other day, yesterday, day before, day before, posted a new recording. Basically came back at work more on that song. So we've got like these two different versions spanning this conversation. And I think that's super neat.

Jessamyn 1:27:47 Oh, that's so great. Yeah, it was a good it was a good month on Metafilter. I think every month is a good month, but they're all good months

Cortex 1:27:56 in different ways. Good work. Meta filtering, everybody.

Jessamyn 1:27:59 Yes. Sorry. The podcast is a little bit late. You know, it happens.

Cortex 1:28:02 But at least it's long. So we've got that. I think that's about it for me. Anything else you wanted to mention?

Jessamyn 1:28:12 Um, no, no, I just good to talk to you and happy birthday. And yeah, keep on keepin on. Yeah.

Cortex 1:28:19 Likewise, like, also Happy birthday to you. Remember, I know, I know. But it's like, you know, it's the it's the thing, although it's like the thing when you're at the gas station and like, they're like, Hey, you drive safe. You're like YouTube? No, no. Why did I say that?

Jessamyn 1:28:36 Though, I did ask and asked Metafilter questions. Sorry, you said anything else? But I asked because I have a milestone birthday coming up. Yeah, no ideas about it. And I'm just kind of fucking busy. And every idea seems like it's just going to be used. And I was like, you know, does that can other people give me some ideas because I don't really care. I just want to like, hang out with my friends. But I'm not sure how to do that. Because and so I got some good feedback, some good suggestions. It applet turned, had a milestone birthday and did it at a fancy library and I couldn't go but I saw the pictures and it looked amazing. And I was like, ah, that's something I would like how do I do that? And so yeah, some questions.

Cortex 1:29:18 I think I think you should do hot dogs but have everybody bring the fancies hot dog bacon find it to be so here's

Jessamyn 1:29:23 the thing my sister said, Did you see this on Twitter? No. She's like, No, no hot dogs. No, that's it. That's what I what I usually do. My birthday is right around Labor Day. And I'm like everybody come over for hot dogs and beer. But like it's kind of a random assortment of people because it's not really a birthday, and it's just hot dogs. And so I was like hot dogs a beer quiche. Like you can't have hot dogs for your 50th birthday. And whatever. She doesn't get to pick. But it did. I was kind of like, but

Unknown Speaker 1:29:49 uh

Cortex 1:29:52 you know, what you can do is you grill the hot dogs but you take a knife and you cut it into long contiguous spiral and then they curl up like with the students.

Jessamyn 1:29:59 That is my favorite kinds of hotdogs. It's so good. I always do that you could have it. I love it. You could make

Cortex 1:30:05 it a hot dog carving contest where everybody comes up with their own distinctive pre grilling slices. And then you get a beauty contest the resulting hotdogs.

Jessamyn 1:30:15 I asked her if I could have fancy sausages. She said, Yeah, sure. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:19 Well, I think I think you can, but it's just

Jessamyn 1:30:21 always weird, right? You're planning you're you're planning your birthday party and your sister's like, you can't do that. I mean, I think it was just like, cottard a weird time, you know, and her point was, you're better than that. But my point is I not and I like talks.

Cortex 1:30:36 But yeah, let me do my thing. I it is the difference in our, like, sibling relationships that like, cannot imagine my sisters having any input whatsoever on what happens on my birthday. But

Jessamyn 1:30:48 I'm really good friends with my sister, as you probably like, see, yeah. And she, she and I, in some ways, because we're siblings, and we've really grown up together. We've mostly been friends the whole time, have kind of a little bit like, you know, she completes Part of me and vice versa. You know, like, I help her do certain things that are outside of her wheelhouse. She helps me do certain things that are outside of my wheelhouse. Yeah. And so helping with this was definitely part of her thing. But the whole point is like, I'm not if I'm involved it. There will be no potlucks. But I have friends with kids. So I think that's kind of going to be the hotdog wedge.

Cortex 1:31:24 Yeah, that kind of makes it easier. Well, hey, good luck with that. And thank you. It's in September. I've got plenty of you got some you got some runway left? Yes. Yes. All right. Well, I think I think it's a podcast.

Jessamyn 1:31:39 I think I think that's a good podcast. And like I said, I'm someone who's real internet. So I'm going to be able to upload this file kind of quick, delightful. Nice. It's good talking to you as always, Josh. Yeah, good to

Unknown Speaker 1:31:48 See ya.